What Builder Makes Good Quality Full Keel Sailboats?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jon Neely

This is not correct when it comes to the yard statement. Many Hans Christians where made in similar yards but of the main line of has christians they where all separate. For instance our HC33 along with all HC33 that where made pre87 where built in the Hansa yard, only a few 41/43s where built there as well. You named off a lot of Taiwanese boats, almost none of them shared the same yard. Just because the boats where built in Taiwan doesn't mean they all have the same quality. Our family sailboat is a Mason 43. Masons where built in the Ta Shing yard along with Babas and Panda and Toshibia/flying Dutchman's I Believe. When you look at the Hansa Vs the Ta Shing yard I can spot pretty quickly the quality difference from the layup of the hull to the welds in the steel. Now when you start comparing this to Formosas... sorry formosa owners but these other yards where in a different category. We have Friends the cruise a CT41, while I think they are cool and so do the owners, they could immediately tell the difference of quality when stepping on our boat. They Should, the CT was always a low cost Taiwan cruiser compared to Hans Christians. I was on a Late 70's HC38 and the quality of it shocked me (in a bad way) compared to our Hansa. There are also areas on my boat that is shake my head.... We have had non of the Stainless problems that most other Taiwan boats have. Please don't take this a snappy or mean, just trying to share some info.

Cheers,

Jon

Glad somebody straightened this out as I was about to. No comparison between a Formosa and a Ta Shing built boat.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Glad somebody straightened this out as I was about to. No comparison between a Formosa and a Ta Shing built boat.

You guys better watch out! Zee can get folks to come knee-cap you for statements like that!

Jim

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

You guys better watch out! Zee can get folks to come knee-cap you for statements like that!

Jim

err....ahh.... yeah... last I heard Zee is still rebuilding her....eerr... Formosa.
Nothing wrong with those boats, just sayin'... Ta Shing is probably the best in the world if your boat style includes "furniture" as well as good quality.... Unfortunately, I think Ta Shing moved up to 80 foot or bigger years ago....mostly power. They know where the money is I guess....

[Curmudgeon]

Don't the Island Piglets still use a Scheel keel?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Polux,
The numbers you are quoting, from a variety of manufacturers, are based on "light boat" conditions. I suspect that "light boat" for some of these guys is really "empty boat". The poster is interested in a cruiser. He is going to be carrying a lot of gear. The only SA/D ratio that will mean anything to him is the fully loaded one.

The SA/D's I was giving refered to loaded condition. Yeah, sure, "loaded" means different things to different people. And if somebody is willing to travel really light they can have pretty high SA/Ds. But if they're carrying supplies for 6 months, several anchors, lots of tools and spares, a good tender, 300' of chain, etc etc than the ULDB SA/Ds come down quite a bit.

SA/D are always calculated on the given displacement by the manufacturer that is normally a light boat, being them modern or old boats.

The difference between old cruisers and modern cruisers in what regards SA/D is very big to the point as modern cruisers being classified as racers on old SA/D calculators.

[DoubleWhisky]

I can be completely wrong, but I was under impression that SA/D ratio is useful mainly to compare boats with hulls having quite similar prismatic coefficient...

[Polux]

Not prismatic coefficient but finesse coefficient ( CF or waterplane coefficient). The Water plane coefficient on a well designed boat has a lot to do with wet area/displacement and a beamier light modern boat will not have necessarily a bigger CF than an heavier narrower boat of the same size. It can be quite the contrary.

These drawings from Finot explain the two situations in what regards CF between an heavy narrower boat and a lighter beamier boat while sailing:





SA/D is a measure of the boat power and also of the boat stiffness and stability (till Max RM). It is related with the boat speed in light winds and also with the wind needed to reach hull speed (bigger the SA/D less wind force will be needed).