welding anchor chain

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I assume by welding the chain, we are really talking about welding a purchased link so it can’t come apart, not actually welding the links together, or making our own link?
If so, I see no reason why not, I was years ago an oilfield welder, which means of course stick welding, although I can tig as well. I would have no problem with welding a purchased link closed myself, and I’d use 7018 rod, but that is my go to rod anyway.
I’ve not done much welding in the last 20 hrs or so though, but doubt it’s changed much

No, it hasn't changed much in 20 hrs, I am sure.



I like 7018 too! It sure lays a nice bead! Very forgiving of technique, too. I learned with 6011 and similar rods, but first time I burned a 7018 I was deeply impressed.

[Jim Cate]

RE the "all the links in a chain are welded, so welding a link to join bits must be ok" thought process: wouldn't the chain manufacturer do any heat treatment AFTER all the welds are done? If so, one can't reasonably restore the treatment for an after mfg welded link, and it will be different in characteristics than the rest of the chain. And even if one uses 70kpsi rod for the weld, if you weaken the rest of the link by annealing it, Bob isn't your uncle at all.

Not an expert at all, but these questions bother me.

Jim

[GrowleyMonster]

For BBB chain, there is no dealbreaking reason not to weld. I would certainly trust my own welds to maintain the full or very nearly full strength of the chain. Remember, this is not high test chain. It is not heat treated. Welding will anneal steel, but BBB is already in the annealed state, so to speak. Introducing a lot of carbon into the weld could cause a bit of brittleness, I suppose, but not significant. No need to buy a special link to weld. Just cut a link in two with a chop saw or even a hacksaw. Better yet, cut two links, at a very shallow angle, with the cut closer to one end of the link than the other by the width of the cut. Then take the two longer (slightly longer, that is) pieces and match them up and you will have a full length link. Grind a nice bevel for good penetration. Tack, and if it looks good, fire for effect. I really don't think a weld, done right, will sacrifice any significant amount of strength. A C link, OTOH, will reduce the chain strength by about 25%, assuming heat treated C link. Cheap home depot C links will leave you at about 50%. There are other types of joiners but you will likely find that you need to pass the region of the join manually over the windlass. A welded link done with a reasonable amount of care and skill will fit into the wildcat exactly the same as any other link in the chain.

So you can weld your 100' and your 60' pieces of BBB chain together. But still, should you? If you are on a budget and you have a spare rode set up, sure, sounds like a good idea as long as you aren't using high test chain. If you don't have a spare rode, then my choice with limited funds would be to use the 100' piece in combination with nylon, for the primary rode, and the 60' piece on another bit of nylon, for a spare. Or weld them together, yeah, for a spare, and buy a new chain for a primary, all chain rode if funds aren't really tight or if you might be anchoring in demanding situations.

If your BBB chain is properly sized to give you a suitable WLL then it will be heavier than an equivelant strength high test chain. It will also be cheaper. You could upgrade to a bigger chain, and get more weight out there for the same length. Not saying that BBB is superior to G40 at all, but only that the cheaper chain does have its pros as well as cons, and isn't all bad. One of those pros is you don't have to fear for the strength of the chain when you must resort to welding two or more pieces together.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Interesting. The jumper seems like a pain, since it won't go through the windlass.

You can end-for-end the line, but after the second time, you are back where you started. I just cut off ~ 5 feet and re-splice.



I think you will find that this has been heavily researched and there is no basis for your concern. Turn the voice in the back of your head off. Likewise, windlass manufacturers recommend the standard short chain splice. That said, I like the irony splice better. Very smooth.

Oh, I agree, its mostly the little voice the back of my head...at least the one I can hear over the others. [emoji16] Though I have run some boats with rope-chain splices in very bad shape where its justified.

I put the jumper on after the splice has paid out thru the windlass so no problem and its easy to attach. I dont do this often on my boat. Normally I never even get to the splice and I keep mine in good shape. If anchoring for some expected bad weather with a lot of scope I will add the jumper. Typically, Ive used it on other boats.

What is an "irony" splice? One that ran thru a spell-checker I assume? [emoji16]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

Me? Nothing. I will be getting 300 feet of uninterrupted chain for the anchor rode to use in the PNW.

It was a set up you proposed, even if not for your boat, so I assumed it had some functional objective.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

It was a set up you proposed, even if not for your boat, so I assumed it had some functional objective.

It was presented as a question in response to a statement that a splice is not a reason for concerns.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Until you do.

Maybe you simply haven't seen enough weather/load to put it to the test.

Maybe not but I ran the boat for about 5 years with those links and never had an issue. We only spent 4 months a year on the hook but what do I know. OR Maybe you don’t know a good welder.

Fact is, anything can fail.

[Mr B]

Grade 30 chain, The weakest Chain.

1/4 inch working weight limit, 1300 LB, Breaking strain, , 5200 Lb,
5/16 " " "" :: 1900 LB "" " 7600 LB,
3/8 " " " " 2600 LB, "" " 10600 LB,
1/2 " " " " 4500 LB " " 18000 LB,

If you get enough weight on a chain to snap it,
Your going to be pulling Cleats out of the deck first,

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

. . .
BBB chain isn’t heat treated, trade 40 and 70 are, and unless I’m mistaken that is the difference in the three, the level of heat treat.
Of course heat treatment makes steel stronger, but more brittle.
. . .

BBB and ProofCoil are regular 30ksi steel.
HiTest/G40/G43 uses alloying to increase strength or you wouldn’t be able to buy it hot dip galvanized

https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/yo...g-anchor-chain
https://www.morganscloud.com/2011/05...-anchor-chain/

Higher grade chains (70,80,100,120) are heat treated which make hot dip galvanizing problematic. I believe there are some alternative methods that can uses at considerable expense.
http://blog.uscargocontrol.com/diffe...ade-100-chain/

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

Maybe not but I ran the boat for about 5 years with those links and never had an issue. We only spent 4 months a year on the hook but what do I know. OR Maybe you don’t know a good welder.

Fact is, anything can fail.

I cruise full time on a 65 tonne vessel and always anchor.
I am a boilermaker/welder by trade and learnt that trade in the boatbuilding industry so would like to think I know a thing or two about welding and I wouldn't weld my own chain as a permanent thing even though I have the gear onboard to do so.

The chain I use is tested and comes with a certificate.
Chain is cheap insurance the scheme of things and yes, anything can fail given the right conditons but some things are more prone to fail than others.

[Mr B]

Has any one on here actually snapped an anchor chain or know any one that has,
The chain its self, Not the fixings on the ends of it,

[Simi 60]

I have stretched a chain.
I would not have liked to have been relying on a site welded link that day

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Has any one on here actually snapped an anchor chain or know any one that has,
The chain its self, Not the fixings on the ends of it,

Damn rare IME!

One case was a 72 foot ferro brigantine, anchored on 13 mm chain to a huge (~150 lb) Danforth anchor in sand, during a cyclone at Raul Island in the Kermadecs... and no snubber. Broke and the vessel was ultimately lost.

Second case was (as it happens) also a ferro boat, but a ~40 foot French Canadian boat... VERY much a low bucks affair. He had had some issues with failing rope rodes and bought some cast off chain from a Mexican fisherman... incredibly rusty! And sure enough it promptly broke under mild conditions. He retrieved the remnants and again used it. When it broke the second time the boat went up on a beach (Sea of Cortez). Boat salvaged, and we lost track of them after that.

Third case was a ~50 foot timber yacht (ex fishing boat) from Tasmania. Anchored in a lagoon in PNG, squall, chain broke, boat lost on the reef. Very sad... experienced circumnavigators, don't know the details like chain size, grade or length,nor whether there was a snubber in use. Likely so, for they had a lot of anchoring experience, but I dunno for sure.

So, out of the thousands of boats that we've met over the years, these are the only examples of chain failure that I'm aware of.

Jim

[daletournier]

Haven't read the whole thread.

Can't tell you if it's a good idea or not but can tell you I did it on my last boat. Anchored in all sorts of conditions full time for next four years and never had a issue.

I've never seen a chain break, I've seen cheap stainless swivels break only.

[RaymondR]

You do not cut the links in half, you cross cut the link through the semi circular end part. What I mean by cross cut is you cut through the end of the link at 45 degrees then, you cut it in the same place at 90 degrees to the previous cut. What you end up with is a whole link which will fit together with a similarly cut link on the second part of chain.

You then weld the four V shaped gaps in the links thereby achieving what is known as "a fully penetrated weld". No cutting links in half just X shaped cuts on the end links which allow the end links to be fitted together then the V shaped slots filled with weld. Doing it this way the welded portions are not placed under tensile loading they only experience shear loading.

When I finally figure out how to get images from my phone to the chromebook I use for email I will post some images.