welding anchor chain

[JC Reefer]

I did this once and was assisted by a pro welder. We used SS chain links to be cut and re-welded. Never had any issues

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I have been welding my anchor chain for about three decades now and never had a problem.

.

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

I did this once and was assisted by a pro welder. We used SS chain links to be cut and re-welded. Never had any issues

Until you do.

Maybe you simply haven't seen enough weather/load to put it to the test.

[Pete7]

I still don't see what is the problem with a good quality C link to join the chain. Took about 15 minutes to do mine. Job done.

Pete

[RaymondR]

I am amazed at the lack of faith in welding by people who would without consideration climb into an automobile (welded together) and drive across a steel bridge (welded together) to go towork in a multi story building (steel frame welded together) or climb aboard a cruise liner (steel plates welded together) etc. etc. etc.

You cut the end links of the chain to be welded (not the sides) twice in a X pattern.

The two end links can now be joined together.

The V slots on either side of the X cuts are then filled with weld using a low hydrogen electrode.

That's it, you now have a high integrity join which is much stronger and reliable than any of the alternate joins which will pass freely through your anchor winch.

I'll let someone else research the yield strengths of the various grades of anchor chain but mild steel is around 30,000 psi yield strength and commonly low hydrogen rods around 70,000 psi.

As pointed out by another poster every link of a chain is welded, it's the only way to make it. The reason that the welding of steel structures is so ubiquitous is that it is the most reliable way of joining steel.

[Pete7]

There is a big difference between chain being welded in a factory machine and some dude on a yacht with a stick welder and genny.

Is any heat treatment required after this joining of the parts?

How do you stop it rusting?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Pete7

There is a big difference between chain being welded in a factory machine and some dude on a yacht with a stick welder and genny.

Is any heat treatment required after this joining of the parts?

How do you stop it rusting?

all steel rusts,
A butt welding machine welds all the links in all chain, No matter what it is made from,
Before the Machine came along, a Blacksmith would hand weld each link in a Forge, And thats was all chain, No matter what steel it was made from,

A welded chain link is just as strong as the parent metal. The original chain link,
No matter whether its Mig Welded, Stick welded, Tig Welded, or Forge welded,

Forge welding chain links as an apprentice, Certainly honed your welding skills, Considering every welded link carried a 100 % unconditional Guarantee

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Could you explain this? Jumper from where to where, secured how?


If you are worried about the splice failing, I can't remember ever hearing of any 3-strand splice failing; they are too simple. The main concern, by far, is chafe at the bow.

Ive never had a 3 strand splice fail either, though I have run some boats where they looked pretty questionable (thus the origin of the jumper). The jumper, at least the one I sometimes use on my boat, is dyneema cored line (with an outter cover), has a eye in one end, hitch that thru the chain and rolling hitch the other end to the rope. Its just a scrap piece I have. Ive used other line types too...usually just whatever is handy...esp if not running my boat.

On my boat I use a long version of the rope to chain splice which is less likely to fail I think than the common short splice (which is already proven reliable if in good condition).

After a couple of seasons the splice can get a little beat up from going thru the windlass so I end for end the 3 strand and make up a fresh splice.

If I were running a boat with a welded/linked chain I think I would do the samething over the connection in question.

Likely uneccessary, but it takes that potential issue off my mind and I sleep better.

In the case of a cat, chafe of the rode at the bow really isnt an issue due to the load being on the bridle. Same would apply to a mono with a snubber. Ideally the rope-chain splice should never touch the bottom, so its main source of chafe is running thru the windlass.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

How about this set-up then: anchor, 100 feet of chain, 50 feet of a 3-strand rope, 60 feet of chain, and a 3-strand rope tail of desired length? In most FL/Bahamas anchoring situations only the first 100 foot segment of chain and a snubber length of the first rope will be deployed. The rest goes out only in deep or stormy cases.

What are you trying to accomplish with the second segment of chain?

With that arrangement, youve added a lot of additional potential points of failure/maintenance (multiple rope-chain splices). While chain welded in the field by some dude in the marina would not inspire confidence in me, it is at least just a single point of failure.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pete7

There is a big difference between chain being welded in a factory machine and some dude on a yacht with a stick welder and genny.



Is any heat treatment required after this joining of the parts?



How do you stop it rusting?

There is, but I hate to say trust me, but I could do it easily.
As he said 7018 rod, my favorite and easy to weld low hydrogen rod has a tensile strength of 70,000 PSI.
The first two digits in welding rod are its strength.

BBB chain isn’t heat treated, trade 40 and 70 are, and unless I’m mistaken that is the difference in the three, the level of heat treat.
Of course heat treatment makes steel stronger, but more brittle.

Then if your concerned about rusting as was said earlier there are rods of zinc available, I assume to use with an acetylene torch, not to weld with, but I’ve never used them myself.

However I think the best argument is, yes it can be welded and done so correctly the weld is stronger than the parent material, as all good welds are.

However, why bother, just connect with a good quality connecting link that is at least as strong as BBB chain and don’t bother with welding.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I assume by welding the chain, we are really talking about welding a purchased link so it can’t come apart, not actually welding the links together, or making our own link?
If so, I see no reason why not, I was years ago an oilfield welder, which means of course stick welding, although I can tig as well. I would have no problem with welding a purchased link closed myself, and I’d use 7018 rod, but that is my go to rod anyway.
I’ve not done much welding in the last 20 hrs or so though, but doubt it’s changed much

Not that it makes any difference in this case, but welding processes certainly are changing. Happy watching!
https://www.youtube.com/user/FroniusWelding

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

However, why bother, just connect with a good quality connecting link that is at least as strong as BBB chain and don’t bother with welding.

Which is what I am getting at, I think the Crosby link cost me £12 and that was imported into the UK from the US. Bash it together and Bobs your uncle, whoever Bob is.

Pete

[RaymondR]

I assume the Crosby links being referred to are what they refer to as "missing links" since these are the only ones which retain the form of a normal chain link and consequently pass around the windlass freely.

Inspection shows that the load bearing section of the link is only half that of a normal link. Whilst one might fabricate the link from a very high tensile steel and consequently achieve similar breaking strengths as a low tensile chain in use the joint will tend to become loose from corrosion and wear of the steel pins which are peened over to hold the two C sections together. Cyclic loading of the C sections will then occur and eventually fatigue failure result, particularly as the heat treated alloy steels used are generally more susceptible to this type of failure.

In addition anchor chain often lies within mud where there is considerable activity by sulphate reducing bacteria. This produces hydrogen sulphide (the cause of the horrible smell when you walk through this stuff) High tensile steels are far more liable to hydrogen embrittlement than low tensile.

In my 40 odd years of oilfield work I observed only two types of joining link in common use in the field and neither of them will fit around a windlass.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

What are you trying to accomplish with the second segment of chain?

Me? Nothing. I will be getting 300 feet of uninterrupted chain for the anchor rode to use in the PNW.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ive never had a 3 strand splice fail either, though I have run some boats where they looked pretty questionable (thus the origin of the jumper). The jumper, at least the one I sometimes use on my boat, is dyneema cored line (with an outter cover), has a eye in one end, hitch that thru the chain and rolling hitch the other end to the rope. Its just a scrap piece I have. Ive used other line types too...usually just whatever is handy...esp if not running my boat.

On my boat I use a long version of the rope to chain splice which is less likely to fail I think than the common short splice (which is already proven reliable if in good condition).

After a couple of seasons the splice can get a little beat up from going thru the windlass so I end for end the 3 strand and make up a fresh splice.

If I were running a boat with a welded/linked chain I think I would do the samething over the connection in question.

Likely uneccessary, but it takes that potential issue off my mind and I sleep better.

In the case of a cat, chafe of the rode at the bow really isnt an issue due to the load being on the bridle. Same would apply to a mono with a snubber. Ideally the rope-chain splice should never touch the bottom, so its main source of chafe is running thru the windlass.

Interesting. The jumper seems like a pain, since it won't go through the windlass.

You can end-for-end the line, but after the second time, you are back where you started. I just cut off ~ 5 feet and re-splice.



I think you will find that this has been heavily researched and there is no basis for your concern. Turn the voice in the back of your head off. Likewise, windlass manufacturers recommend the standard short chain splice. That said, I like the irony splice better. Very smooth.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...Of course heat treatment makes steel stronger, but more brittle....

As an engineer, I do understand what the words mean. On the other hand...


1. The chain spec for G30 and 43 are 15% min. elongation to break and >70 is 20% min. elongation to break.


2. The chain works something like a long spring. Would you make a spring from mild steel or spring steel? Which would have the greater fatigue life?



The thing is, G30 has been banned by OSHA and DOT for load binding because it is less reliable. So while high grade chain is not required for anchoring, implying it inferior is reaching a little bit. Brittle implies it will break like glass, when in fact it will been farther without fatigue or bending. There is also the implication that anchor chain sees impacts, like a car crash, where what it actually endures is more like the action of springs in a chair; relatively slow, repetitive rises and fall in tension.