Vote On the 'Best Blue Water Cruising Sailboat of All Time'

[bob perry]

What do I think. I knew Gary and I knew his staff when this boat ws designed. I'm certain it is not a "racing hull" and you can't just "take off 8'". Gary would not have done that. He had integrity.

I know the boat. I have never sailed it. I heard it has some helm issues though. But that was just a rumor. I think it's a good looking boat that should sail very well. Yes, it's a bit racy for cruising boats of that day. What is that God awful thing sticking up off the stern?

I miss Gary. I would call on him for help once and a while. He was quite the man. Walking down the street, both drunk, with Gary Mull you had the feeling you'd live forever. He didn't and I suspect I won't either but it was a nice feeling for a while.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by bob perry

What is that God awful thing sticking up off the stern?

.

That's the "racing" part.

[bob perry]

Therapy:
No, you are wrong. Maybe. Could thay be the 8' he was going to chop off?

[andreavanduyn]

Thanks Mr.Perry for your opinion on the Orion ; we 'heard/learned' what we wrote and are happy to hear your information straight from the source finally.

Indeed she has a 'rudder/steering' issue but I do not know her well and thought this was to do with my sails trim as this is my first ketch. Still do not understand fully if this is a real issue; felt a bit heavy with winds as around 100% on the rudder. What did you hear or think of this issue ? Anything we can do about this from your judgement?

The 'thing on the back' is indeed awful and will be removed once funds are there to replace by a more decend way to hang the dinghy on the stern. There was a huge platform from aluminium as well with electric engines to lift the huge dinghy of the former owner; we took this off and removed another 1200 pounds of lead weights in all kind of corners inside to compensate for the constructions on the stern.....the owner sold her to own a very big motorboat.

Pity we never will have the chance to meet Gary Mull; seems quite a guy what you and others say.

Looking forward to your esteemed comments on the 'rudder issue', with respect,

Eric

[bob perry]

Andrea:

If your boat has weather helm problems the first thing I'd do is get that "thing" of the stern. It's only making the helm worse. Make sure your mainsail is in good shape and not all stretched out. Take all the rake out of the rig. Learn trav adjustment to help flatten the mainsail. Make sure your mast is properly tuned and not falling off to leeward.

Short of moving the keel aft and adding a bowsprit that about all you can do with what you have.

Certainly making sure you mizzen is flat and not oversheeted will have a huge effect on helm pressure. When the wind pipes up get that mizzen down first.

[andreavanduyn]

So what 'the books write' about heavy weather on ketches = mizzen and small jib only is not necessarily true? This is what I did but due to rudder placement/keel it is in this boat as you advise better to handle her like a sloop when wind picks up.

Makes sense; thank you.

Rest is clear ; new sails installed from Quantum in dacron and rig is tight /straight and good.

Rest will follow and for me she still is the 'Touché' of our sailing life.

Andrea & Eric +son Florian

[Wand]

If the OP is serious about "blue water", then it must be steel, or ferro maybe. Only vessels made of these materials can be considered true blue water because only these won't go straight to the bottom in a collision with a whale or container (or in the case of plastic, even a log). And it happens folks.

So sorry to all those who've voted for the pretty plastic boats but - for bluewater - they fall at the first hurdle.

[goboatingnow]

Ferro = bluewater you're having a laugh mate. The impact resistance of ferro is appalling.

Dave

[Wand]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ferro = bluewater you're having a laugh mate. The impact resistance of ferro is appalling. Dave.

No mate, it's theory vs. observation. I know about the impact resistance figures and they don't look good. That's the theory. But I've also seen the damage caused to a ferro vessel by hammering against rocks over a four day blow. That's the observation.

The entire starboard bow section was severely damaged but the boat did not sink. Anything other than metal or ferro-cement would have been holed and gone to the bottom in the first few hours or quicker.

The secret for its survival was the way it was holed and the way it leaked - and that is why I said "and maybe ferro".

What happened is that the impact crushed the hull as the theory predicted but it didn't create a big clean hole for the water to rush in. Instead, all the cement compound bits and pieces were largely contained within the ferro structure, and the water seeped in rather than rushed in.

And the inflow was therefore easily kept up with by the bilge pumps. Further, because the inflow was moderated, the crew managed to stuff the wound with towels and other objects such that the inflow was virtually abated.

When conditions eased, they were able to motor off the rocks and to the yard, where the repairs were made. I observed these repairs and have posted about them elsewhere on this forum. I was amazed by the simplicity and cheapness with which the repairs were made, and it was then that I first considered getting a ferro myself.

Another tale of interest... I spoke to a fellow club member just yesterday as it happens who once owned a sistership to mine, and he told of how he picked it up for a mere $14K. It had shortly prior been sold in Adelaide to a Sydneysider for $85K and a delivery skipper was taking it around the coast.

Seems he anchored inadvisedly outside Port Phillip Bay and went aground on rocks. Same story - it remained afloat with the same sort of seepage wound.

The insurance company wrote it off and the $14K bid won it for this bloke. He simply patched it with a beach sand mix, then set sail into Melbourne to fix it properly. The ferro parts looked brand new, like it was stainless, and only needed straightening. Simple, cheap and logical and it wasn't long before he again had an $85K boat.

For a great boatbuilding material, it's had some terrible press. And the desk engineers with their 'impact resistance' figures don't help; like the weatherman, they should try looking out the window.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by At sea

No mate, it's theory vs. observation. I know about the impact resistance figures and they don't look good. That's the theory. But I've also seen the damage caused to a ferro vessel by hammering against rocks over a four day blow. That's the observation.

The entire starboard bow section was severely damaged but the boat did not sink. Anything other than metal or ferro-cement would have been holed and gone to the bottom in the first few hours or quicker.

The secret for its survival was the way it was holed and the way it leaked - and that is why I said "and maybe ferro".

What happened is that the impact crushed the hull as the theory predicted but it didn't create a big clean hole for the water to rush in. Instead, all the cement compound bits and pieces were largely contained within the ferro structure, and the water seeped in rather than rushed in.

And the inflow was therefore easily kept up with by the bilge pumps. Further, because the inflow was moderated, the crew managed to stuff the wound with towels and other objects such that the inflow was virtually abated.

When conditions eased, they were able to motor off the rocks and to the yard, where the repairs were made. I observed these repairs and have posted about them elsewhere on this forum. I was amazed by the simplicity and cheapness with which the repairs were made, and it was then that I first considered getting a ferro myself.

Another tale of interest... I spoke to a fellow club member just yesterday as it happens who once owned a sistership to mine, and he told of how he picked it up for a mere $14K. It had shortly prior been sold in Adelaide to a Sydneysider for $85K and a delivery skipper was taking it around the coast.

Seems he anchored inadvisedly outside Port Phillip Bay and went aground on rocks. Same story - it remained afloat with the same sort of seepage wound.

The insurance company wrote it off and the $14K bid won it for this bloke. He simply patched it with a beach sand mix, then set sail into Melbourne to fix it properly. The ferro parts looked brand new, like it was stainless, and only needed straightening. Simple, cheap and logical and it wasn't long before he again had an $85K boat.

For a great boatbuilding material, it's had some terrible press. And the desk engineers with their 'impact resistance' figures don't help; like the weatherman, they should try looking out the window.

They're like the Cat's of yesteryear... the bad ones flipped and tarred the rest...
same with ferro... pro built boats to a good spec are well safe...
Good post mate..

[andreavanduyn]

Originally Posted by timatetech

A Ron Holland 43 is my choice. Like the Orion 50, few were made (13) but all were built to order on a semi custom basis. Ours is hull number 11 and a sweeter boat I could not have imagined.

The Sailing Vessel Wren - Ron Holland 43

Understand as we owned an S&S 44 for years; the stern and lines of yours can give you that sweetness we did not have on ours. Nice boat and surely well built as ours also is from Taiwan from those good old times.

Did not know of the existence of these but understand your choice; would do the same if i had that info at the time.

Fair winds.

Eric

[sailr69]

That question has already been answered. the answer is: Corbin 39

[sailr69]

Photo: crunchingnumberspage1 | Crunching Numbers for a Quality Sailboat album | Corbin 39 Owners Group | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.

check out this website, John Holtrop did a program in 1998 to find the best cruising boat using a program called fuzzy logic. you will be surprised what boat the program chose.

[bcbear]

The best cruising boat of all time must be the one that
is enjoyed the most without financial or emotional stresses.

I have an Ericson 29. It is what I use and I thoroughly
enjoy it. However, when I retire, I think a larger boat with
a shower and larger water tanks will replace my Ericson.

My thoughts lean to comfort and ease of sail handling.

I have sailed on a Cabo Rico Tribuion 36. Wonderful and very
comfortable. I crewed on a Cal 54....the feel through my legs
was like the boat was part of me but I was much younger
and I know that would be to much for me now. So age of
owner is also a factor. I think I would vote for the Valiant 40;
and or the Freedom 39 cat ketch.

[Strait Shooter]

Ingrid "Orca" of course. Sheesh, now ask me a hard one.
And even though she's mere fiberglass, I'm pretty sure she is indeed to be considered "blue water" capable, (willing and able).