Viewing a boat by proxy

[joel383]

Originally Posted by Ryban

Yeah. I left my job, and am taking my humble savings for a 2-3 year trip around the world (or as far as I can get).

More likely I'll stay with a friend on a month-to-month basis if the boat isn't already in a liveaboard location, until something can be arranged.

Boats that meet my perceived requirements and fall into my price range include:

- Contessa 26
- Tartan 27 & 30
- Cape Dory 27 & 30
- Albin Vega 27
- Bayfield 29
- Alberg 30
- Rawson 30
- Pearson Vanguard 32

So mostly small budget 30-50 year-old proven passage-makers.

I have a rawson 30 in a Pilot house and love it. Not a fast boat though. Hardware will need updating if original. The previous owner to my boat put trex on the rail and I love it!

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Ryban

A lot of these boats that I like are equipped with the Atomic 4, and I've been wondering how much this should influence my decision-making process, and whether or not I should stick with a good-running Atomic 4, or replace it with a diesel should such a boat come into my hands.

How much more should one be willing to pay for a diesel version of the same boat -- assuming both engines are of equal quality.

You said you want a passagemaker...that excludes the atomic 4. There are entire threads about this, but to summarize...if you want to cross an ocean, you want a diesel.

In your price range, you are paying for the engine, wrapped in a boat. So Atomic 4 engines are obviously going to be attractively priced. Resist that urge...pay for the diesel. You will not regret it.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Ryban

One concern I'd have with a boat like that is the wheel steering -- how much work is it to convert back to a tiller configuration?

Most boats in this size range with wheel steering come with an emergency tiller. So everything is there for tiller steering already...or should be. Removing the wheel pedestal would not be a big job. Covering the hole in the deck might be.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Ryban

I had not heard of Kijiji, is it a Canadian thing?

I like that Bayfield. As it is, it does stand on the upper-end of my budget, but my total budget for the boat is about 20-30K. So I may be willing to spend more for something more "ready", if in the end it works out to about the same cost.

I haven't paid too close attention to boats on the great lakes as it would somewhat expensive to have them towed to an ocean. Another option would be to navigate out to the Atlantic, but it'd be quite the journey just to get "started". That said, if there's something I'm really eyeing in your neighborhood, I'll certainly take you up on your offer.

$1250 sounds like a 2-year project. I'm a bit dubious because there are more pictures of the surroundings than there are the boats. Unless he forgot a zero.

KIJIJI...yes, in Canada Kijiji is big. Craigslist never really took off here. I have bought and sold boats on Kijiji...its a great resource.

PROJECT BOATS...EVERY boat is a project. If they actually say PROJECT BOAT you should RUN very fast away. Project boats are for people who like working on boats for years and years and years. Some people die of old age before the boat ever even gets launched. Personally, I like sailing. You are looking for an inexpensive boat...not a project.

GREAT LAKES...Fresh water and a short season means rust free, great condition used boats. A weak canadian dollar means your USD go a long way here. Its an easy ride down the oswego or erie canal to the Hudson river and the open ocean. It can be done in a week...but give yourself 3 weeks and enjoy an incredible trip where you will meet wonderful people and see fantastic sights. And isn't that why you wanted to go sailing in the first place?

BAYFIELD 32: That Bayfield is a LOT more boat than most of the 27s or 29s you have been looking at. It a solid, heavy boat of well known quality. Have you been on some boats yet? A 32 is twice as big as a 27 for living and storage space. That B32 is a boat you could actually have a nice comfortable time cruising the world on. Regardless of the size of the boat, you still need the same amount of food, water, clothes, a dinghy etc. You need storage space for all that stuff. The B32 also has shallow draft, which would be excellent in the Bahamas. My only complaint about the Bayfield boats...they are slow and don't point well compared to all the fin keel racer/cruisers which are predominant in my area.

[maine50]

The challenge for me , the Atomic 4 is not wether it can be dependable or even safe, but the difference in fuel economy. The advantage in the Tartan 30 is the engine is almost completly accesable. The engine is behind the forward port side bulkhead. To answer your question, if your very mechanically inclined DIY, a diesel is worth 5 to 7 grand more. If not it would cost 10 to 12 grand to have the Atomic 4 replaced with a new diesel. The selling prices of diesel equiped boats won't be that much more than Atomic 4 equiped boats.

[Ryban]

It just boggles my mind how much work and money is involved in an engine refit. It would be the same price of some of these boats. Too bad -- I'll be trying to steer clear of the Atomic 4s for my purposes.

I'm not completely turned off from the the Great Lakes' offerings just yet. They certainly have enormous pros, as you've outlined. Sailing around the lakes and a trip down the river would be a good way to get to know the boat, too.

Re. Bayfield 32:
I have been on boats this size, and larger boats like 35s and 37s, and honestly felt like many of them were just way too big. I've sailed on boats in the 40 range, but I've only sailed boats around 21'. The boat I buy will also be the boat I use to become a "competent" sailor, so having something manageable and somewhat forgiving is a factor.

Given the choice, I still think I'd want something on the smaller side, simply because of how the repair costs/time scale with boat size. And quite frankly, if they weren't so expensive, I'd be happy with a Flicka 20 or Dana 24.

[Don C L]

A boat like the Columbia 24 or 26, already has a good outboard well, and then with a cutout in the transom to allow the engine to be tilted up is not a bad set-up at all (as Baldwin refitted boats like Tritons.) I wish my well had enough room for one, but it doesn't. The newer outboards are quiet, smooth, need no through-hulls, cost around $3k are easy to maintain and since they can be tilted up, offer no drag. The only downsides are that you are carrying gas, and the fuel economy/range will not match a diesel. Now if you know you need to motor a lot, a diesel makes more sense, but perhaps an outboard is not so bad. When I set out for Hawaii with a friend in his Columbia 24, he had his engine packed in the lazzarette. (We weren't planning to use it till we got there.) We ended up coming back from that trip, but no fault of the boat. My buddy was so seasick for two and a half days I finally said let's try another day and we turned around. The boat with our homemade QME vane was going great though!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ryban

Yeah. I left my job, and am taking my humble savings for a 2-3 year trip around the world (or as far as I can get).

More likely I'll stay with a friend on a month-to-month basis if the boat isn't already in a liveaboard location, until something can be arranged.

Boats that meet my perceived requirements and fall into my price range include:

- Contessa 26
- Tartan 27 & 30
- Cape Dory 27 & 30
- Albin Vega 27
- Bayfield 29
- Alberg 30
- Rawson 30
- Pearson Vanguard 32

So mostly small budget 30-50 year-old proven passage-makers.

It's a good list. Don't let anyone talk you into a 40 Year old spade rudder boat you are going to need to do rudder work on.
I have asked owner/broker to go to the boat and call me on the cell. Make a list, then ask specific things like "regarding the gel coat on deck; is it shiny and smooth? or does it look very porous? Does white come off on your hand when you rub it?" (these things you will not see in a photo) You are getting some "buy in" from someone you will look in the eye if you travel to see it.
Some notes on your choices:
- Contessa 26- Small, slow, narrow and wet. But a beauty at anchor. Hated sailing mine. "life on a 20 degree heel"
- Tartan 27 & 30
- Cape Dory 27 & 30-Simple well made boats with a proven practical design.
- Albin Vega 2d- Look Small, slow, narrow like the Contessa. But I haven't sailed one.
- Bayfield 29- I like the boat but not owned one.
- Alberg 30-Simple well made boats with a proven design.
- Rawson 30- They vary a lot. Many owner finished. Good sea boats. Very dry in rough water. I loved mine, but very "basic" inexpensive construction.
By a commercial fish boat builder. Gets the job done.
- Pearson Vanguard 32

[KiminAK]

That Cape Dory sounds like a steal, I'd be tempted to jump on a plane for that one.

[Ryban]

I also really like that Cape Dory 30, and am trying to get as much info on her as I can (remotely). I have a few friends out in NY, but none of them are boat experts. I might be able to coerce one of them into paying the boat a visit anyway.

I've always had a soft spot for ketches, but when I moved to looking at smaller boats, I sort of settled on the more standard sloop rigging. I know people either hate ketches or love them, but I love them. I'll justify it by saying it might make single-handing a little easier.

--

Yeah, the Contessas look like wet boats, and the low standing room might bother me given that I'm 6'. But I also really like them -- maybe it's just because of Maiden Voyage.

The Rawson is pretty low on my list for the reasons you outlined (not high quality, but gets the job done). However, they tend to be well priced, and they are numerous examples on the market along the West Coast.

Ironically though, the one on the market that I like most (from photos) is in NC:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1969...s#.WMpK6DsrKUk

[Suijin]

I'm going to suggest a different approach, based on the fact that photos and descriptions are virtually worthless and the fact that you're not going to be able to find a volunteer for many if not most of your candidate boats. Also sounds like you are looking at boats for sale by owner vs. broker.

Interview the owners with the objective of finding out what kind of owner they are. You're looking for knowledgeable, invested owners. Stay away from those that say "I've given her everything she needed...I told the yard each year to do everything required" because that's a guarantee that she was largely unmaintained. You'll quickly be able to sort out owners who know their boat intimately and were proactive and committed in their care from those who really only addressed things when they broke or became obvious.

[Ryban]

That's always a good point, and the same strategy I've used when buying all my vehicles so far.

But like with cars or motorcycles, they often have had more than one owner. However, if the previous owner was a serious cruiser, and a good owner, then they have probably sorted out a lot of the issues already, or are at least able to communicate them.

Like a used car, I'm very wary of boats that have gone unused for a long time, or have only been used for pleasure. Though, I'm not entirely sure the analogy translates here.

[hamburking]

Ok...here is a real contender. Its local to me (Kingston Canada), and its practically free. Full keel, tiller, and a nice size...not too big. It comes with a marina credit at a good local marina. I'm local and if you are interested, I'll be your proxy and assist. The season here is about to start, so you would have plenty of time to get setup, enjoy the area, then start heading south.

29 foot Bristol Sailboat | sailboats | Kingston | Kijiji

So what's the catch? The original A4 has been removed. Its outboard powered but no outboard included. If you buy a 9.9hp outboard, no licensing or registration required in Canada, so the border and paperwork is nothing. You could install electric, a new/used yanmar, or just go with any outboard you like. There are other threads that cover cruising with an outboard.

I've said it before...when you buy an old boat you are buying the engine and the boat is the free packaging. Well...here it is...the free packaging.

And if you don't like my opinion, there are several other reputable CF members in the area.

http://www.bristolsailboats.org/?page_id=104

[Suijin]

"We have lost interest in sailing and need it out of our yard. Boat does need some work but needs to be seen. It is a classic and I have been putting off letting her go but don't have the time to fix her up."

Not very confidence inspiring. The basic message is "Good things about the boat: it's a classic. Bad things about the boat...everything else."

Most boats being sold because the owner "lost interest" have suffered from neglect in some form or another. But if you're willing to go look at it for the OP and know enough to evaluate it's condition, go for it.

[Don C L]

Bristol 29, another great little boat and a worthy and capable recipient for someone with a dream and energy and time. No one who takes on this project need feel embarrassed at all.