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Old 13-01-2021, 10:41   #586
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Re: Vendee 2020

That Farr design is obviously aimed towards the convergence of the IMOCAs and the “Volvo” boats, which has been a published aim of the Round-the-world race organisers, rather than an out-and-out solo boat like Hugo Boss. The current “Volvo” boats are virtual one-designs. It would be a pity, in my opinion, if the IMOCAs became one-designs. I find the different approaches fascinating.
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Old 13-01-2021, 11:35   #587
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
Tried to post the Imoca boat specs here, but was not successful...it's a long document.

Nonetheless, the pressure the ram must impose on the canting keel is rather substantial to get it to move..

Farr Design Group has also come up with what they consider the perfect Imoca boat. It's interesting to read their take....as nautical architects....on the loads the keel and foils on an Imoca boat is expected to take. Besides moving, these structures are also meant to survive an impact...designing it all is relatively easy, but designing it to be lightweight and strong is quite something else...

There is interesting Youtube video available on the design of the foil arm for the America Cup boats, as all the boats share the same arm design. It took some time to get it right. There were several structural failure's before success.

Getting a state-of-the-art-Imoca boat is not cheap either. It requires deep pockets.
I've read where the America Cup boat adventures requires a $10-12M bank account to field a boat.

I don't know how much of this...if any....will trickle down to your basic cruising sailboat.
The closest would be a moveable keel of sorts...much like you see on some sailboats, as having a 12-14' draft on most sailboats would be impractical.

Several Imoca entrants are sailing on older" used" boats...and the prize money is hardly an incentive, but ah, the fame..... !!!

Regarding the cost of an America’s Cup boat, or of a state of the art IMOCA, designing and building the boat itself is a fraction of the overall cost of the campaign. In the case of America’s Cup, you probably meant $100-$120M (estimated spend by Team NZ, the challengers are likely spending double that) with the majority going to payroll over the 3 year design and build cycle. That’s for two boats and umpteen sails and foils and some very sophisticated instruments, computers, communications and software systems and the 100-150 people needed to run everything.

We’re already seeing lifting foils and t-rudders in some custom performance catamarans. For monohulls foils that stick out the sides and use interior room are not going to be popular, but water ballast and double rudders have made it into cruising boats. If there was a way to retract the foils so they don’t stick out the sides, but also don’t use a lot of interior space, I can see designers wanting to use them. Canting keels maybe not as that requires a lot of power and also daggerboards. But certainly sails and sail handling systems and rigging. Look to the Mini class as well.
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Old 13-01-2021, 11:44   #588
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Regarding the cost of an America’s Cup boat, or of a state of the art IMOCA, designing and building the boat itself is a fraction of the overall cost of the campaign. In the case of America’s Cup, you probably meant $100-$120M (estimated spend by Team NZ, the challengers are likely spending double that) with the majority going to payroll over the 3 year design and build cycle. That’s for two boats and umpteen sails and foils and some very sophisticated instruments, computers, communications and software systems and the 100-150 people needed to run everything.

We’re already seeing lifting foils and t-rudders in some custom performance catamarans. For monohulls foils that stick out the sides and use interior room are not going to be popular, but water ballast and double rudders have made it into cruising boats. If there was a way to retract the foils so they don’t stick out the sides, but also don’t use a lot of interior space, I can see designers wanting to use them. Canting keels maybe not as that requires a lot of power and also daggerboards. But certainly sails and sail handling systems and rigging. Look to the Mini class as well.


This foil configuration perhaps doesn’t take up so much interior space

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=be...nVCvPHebcJw0aM

The most radical Mini Transat boats are, well, advanced, including canting keels with adjustable angle of attack, foils with adjustable rake, and t-rudders with adjustable angle-of-attack! And all in twenty feet or so.
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Old 13-01-2021, 11:57   #589
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Re: Vendee 2020

And as a slight aside, here is an interesting article about the trickle down effect of sustained Cup campaigns over decades - not purely the economic one, but the technology one.

The additional development, distribution, and growing of the talent pool and knowledge base across multiple facets of business and technology is especially important in a small country like NZ.

America's Cup: Racing is just the tip of the economic iceberg for Auckland
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americ...g-for-auckland

Team New Zealand even partners with NZ company Rocket Lab:

Quote:
“There has been quite a bit of crossover in personnel between both organisations – they’ve got some of ours, we’ve got some of theirs. They needed guys to be able to build the fuselages of those rockets, and we had the experts to do it.”
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Old 13-01-2021, 14:23   #590
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Re: Vendee 2020

7 boats within less than 35nm after almost 24000nm... unbelievable!
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Old 13-01-2021, 14:46   #591
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Re: Vendee 2020

And they haven't gotten to the Doldrums yet, which will mix things up again.
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Old 13-01-2021, 14:51   #592
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Re: Vendee 2020

First of.....yes...my bad....missed a zero there....$100-120m more likely for an America's cup entrant....

I don't see the foils or canting keels as a viable option for your basic cruising sailboat...#1, the foils need about 10-13 knots plus to have any value....most average sailboat cruising speeds are nowhere near that...#2, where would you park these things.....a cruising boat, with foils would probably not fit in your average width boat slip...even if they were retractable, #3, it's probably fair to say that the modern keeled sailboat sports a 6' draft, often less, sometimes more...and the keel location is usually in the middle of the boat, hardly the place to mount a keel ram, under the dinette table...#4, the canting keel is really there to help support a towering mast and sail area...but, speaking for the US, an airdraft of under 65' is a selling point for most sailboats to enable them to pass under ICW bridges..#5, the cost and maintenance of a canting keel would likely impose a whopping increase in boat price, which would not be a selling point...besides a 12-14' draft would be an enormous pain the butt to have to deal with.

The Vendee boats are relatively light, beamy, planing boats and for the keel to have any meaningful impact it needs, to be deep..as the actual keel blade is relatively thin, with all the weight concentrated in the torpedo tube..not to mention it requires daggerboards or foils.

Racing sailboats might investigate all these add-ons, but I don't see it in your basic cruising boat. Water ballast maybe.

Switching gears, what's up with Sebastian?? He has been struggling along in the rear for quite some time. Now he appears to be going backwards. I'm not sure that he is going to make it much further.
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Old 13-01-2021, 17:12   #593
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Re: Vendee 2020

Quote:
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7 boats within less than 35nm after almost 24000nm... unbelievable!
Yes, I've taken a couple of things away from this Vendee, so far.
1..... Very few tactical mistakes made by the racers as their on board intelligence on weather routing and prediction has been incredible! Losses and Gains have been more a matter of luck to be in the right place at the right time...

2...... Reminds me of a Formula One race at Monaco , where the machines are far too powerful for the course and they throttle way back in order to survive...

The finesse all the racers show to compensate for structural limitations is fascinating to watch
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Old 13-01-2021, 17:21   #594
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Re: Vendee 2020

Interesting to see only 50 miles offset now between the first foiler and the first non foiler.


Quite not as much as was expected.


b.
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Old 13-01-2021, 17:52   #595
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Re: Vendee 2020

Boris is inching to the front.....he's got the boat speed.....and he's got plenty experience sailing these long distance events....if he makes it to the front, he'll be tough to reel in...then there's Jean, he's got 16.15 hours in his hip pocket...so there's two contenders.....it's a bit of a crap shoot for the others..
but at the end of the day, the weather is still a bit of a dark horse...be in the wrong place at the wrong time....ie, Yannick, gave away a 300 plus nm lead thru' no fault of his own, I think it's gonna be a tight race to the finish.....I expect to see at least 5-6 boats finish on the same day...might even see some down to the wire finishes......I don't think I would have positioned myself so close to the shoreline like Yannick, et al, could get squeezed between a rock and a hard place....
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Old 13-01-2021, 17:57   #596
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Re: Vendee 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowtulip View Post
That Farr design is obviously aimed towards the convergence of the IMOCAs and the “Volvo” boats, which has been a published aim of the Round-the-world race organisers, rather than an out-and-out solo boat like Hugo Boss. The current “Volvo” boats are virtual one-designs. It would be a pity, in my opinion, if the IMOCAs became one-designs. I find the different approaches fascinating.


I agree 100%. Vendée should be an open class.
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Old 13-01-2021, 17:59   #597
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Re: Vendee 2020

I’m a cruiser so my opinion doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 13-01-2021, 18:09   #598
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Re: Vendee 2020

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I’m a cruiser so my opinion doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.


Me too. Open racing is horrendously expensive so I suppose that ultimately what matters is the return the sponsors get on their investment. The interest in and coverage of this race has been the best ever. That should please them.
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Old 14-01-2021, 08:18   #599
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Re: Vendee 2020

I see Sebastian back on track again. He is having an awful lot of problems with his boat.
Not sure that I'd want to continue on in the southern ocean in his shoes, but it seems like he is giving it a go...
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Old 16-01-2021, 07:12   #600
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Re: Vendee 2020

Well, Sebastian is clearly head for New Zealand, it seems that the Vendee is over for him.
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