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Old 04-12-2020, 06:01   #316
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Re: Vendee 2020

looking at the tracker....Le Cam is about 390 nm behind the leader....at 16 knots, that is about 24 hours.....given that he spend some time looking for KE, that could have put him in or close to the lead...

watch this space........
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Old 04-12-2020, 06:57   #317
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
looking at the tracker....Le Cam is about 390 nm behind the leader....at 16 knots, that is about 24 hours.....given that he spend some time looking for KE, that could have put him in or close to the lead...

watch this space........
When will the committee announce what time Jean has been credited for picking up and dropping off Kevin ??

Thanks, Dale
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Old 04-12-2020, 07:05   #318
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Re: Vendee 2020

I'm not sure the answer to that question....Le Cam still has to drop KE off...that will also incur some time....my guess would be near the end of the race...as there is likely to be some more drama yet to come....
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Old 04-12-2020, 07:10   #319
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Re: Vendee 2020

having said all that...Le Cam could also just come in first....that would take care of that, no further time allowances needed....
my understanding is that there is a Vendee "jury" that will figure this all out...
for the French this is serious business...I'm sure every little thing will be analyzed before a decision is made....and even after all that..Le Cam is allowed to question the findings....
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:36   #320
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Re: Vendee 2020

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This analogy with formula 1 cars is completely inappropriate .
Formula 1 cars are fighting air , Boats are fighting water.


Not at all. The analogy is with the technological development. F1 cars and Paris-Dakar vehicles are at the cutting edge of development in their respective fields. Ditto IMOCAs. Sometimes the developments aren't equal to the conditions in F1 and Paris-Dakar. Ditto IMOCAs. If you break an F1 or Paris-Dakar vehicle they make it stronger next time. Ditto IMOCAs. If an F1 or Paris-Dakar breaks it can have very serious consequences. Ditto IMOCAs. Not so many years ago one of the characteristics of F1 cars, at least, was fragility and unreliability. Not so anymore. An F1 car can be driven into a barrier at 200 mph, the central monocoque can remain intact and the driver walk away. (Grosjean's recent car breaker notwithstanding, though he did walk away.). F1 cars are the fastest they've ever been, yet they're safer than they've ever been. IMOCAs aren't so far along this development path but the analogy is quite clear to me.
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:27   #321
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Re: Vendee 2020

Not sure if the F1 is an apples to apples comparo....

In F1, the object is to save and protect the driver.....in the Vendee boats not so much...the object is to save and protect the boat....which in turn can save the skipper..
F1 drivers wear helmets, burn and fire resistant gear, Halo harness, etc, etc...Vendee skippers wear t-shirts....admittedly the F1 driver travels a lot quicker.
the cockpit around an F1 driver is in essence a cocoon.. a protective steel cage.....
vendee skippers need to roam around their boats, so no such cocoon for them....

The Vendee boats are an amalgamation of kevlar and other exotic materials...on top of which is the mast, foils, keels, sails, etc....they run day and night, rain or sunshine, calm weather, stormy weather....

An F1 race lasts a relatively short time...the Vendee boats are out there for months at a time.....and the only person that can fix them in an emergency is the skipper....maybe....if he has the tools, equipment, time, parts, etc....the FI driver has an army of specialists at this beck and call...plus ambulances, doctors, hospitals, lifeflights, etc..the Vendee skipper has none of that....he is out there in extremely inhospitable territory...on his own...

In an F1 crash, rescue personnel are on the scene, usually in seconds...a Vendee skipper in his liferaft is basically on his own....until such time, someone can reach him....can be a day...can be many days....can be never...

F1 drivers can make a lot of money.....a Vendee skipper not so much.....a top F1 driver can make millions.....though the Vendee is only every 4 years, it's an ongoing project for that time and Vendee Skippers are often on a very tight budget.....

A lot of Vendee boats are hand-me-downs.....refurbished boats...F1 cars are typically state-of-the-art..

air vs. water....is not really the issue....they are widely different sporting activities...no comparo in humble opinions
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:38   #322
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
Not sure if the F1 is an apples to apples comparo....

In F1, the object is to save and protect the driver.....in the Vendee boats not so much...the object is to save and protect the boat....which in turn can save the skipper..
F1 drivers wear helmets, burn and fire resistant gear, Halo harness, etc, etc...Vendee skippers wear t-shirts....admittedly the F1 driver travels a lot quicker.
the cockpit around an F1 driver is in essence a cocoon.. a protective steel cage.....
vendee skippers need to roam around their boats, so no such cocoon for them....

The Vendee boats are an amalgamation of kevlar and other exotic materials...on top of which is the mast, foils, keels, sails, etc....they run day and night, rain or sunshine, calm weather, stormy weather....

An F1 race lasts a relatively short time...the Vendee boats are out there for months at a time.....and the only person that can fix them in an emergency is the skipper....maybe....if he has the tools, equipment, time, parts, etc....the FI driver has an army of specialists at this beck and call...plus ambulances, doctors, hospitals, lifeflights, etc..the Vendee skipper has none of that....he is out there in extremely inhospitable territory...on his own...

In an F1 crash, rescue personnel are on the scene, usually in seconds...a Vendee skipper in his liferaft is basically on his own....until such time, someone can reach him....can be a day...can be many days....can be never...

F1 drivers can make a lot of money.....a Vendee skipper not so much.....a top F1 driver can make millions.....though the Vendee is only every 4 years, it's an ongoing project for that time and Vendee Skippers are often on a very tight budget.....

A lot of Vendee boats are hand-me-downs.....refurbished boats...F1 cars are typically state-of-the-art..

air vs. water....is not really the issue....they are widely different sporting activities...no comparo in humble opinions

Sheesh, the comparison point is the common levels of cutting edge technologies and design in the quest for more speed and winning races, not that one is day long and the other months long.
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:42   #323
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Not at all. The analogy is with the technological development. F1 cars and Paris-Dakar vehicles are at the cutting edge of development in their respective fields. Ditto IMOCAs. Sometimes the developments aren't equal to the conditions in F1 and Paris-Dakar. Ditto IMOCAs. If you break an F1 or Paris-Dakar vehicle they make it stronger next time. Ditto IMOCAs. If an F1 or Paris-Dakar breaks it can have very serious consequences. Ditto IMOCAs. Not so many years ago one of the characteristics of F1 cars, at least, was fragility and unreliability. Not so anymore. An F1 car can be driven into a barrier at 200 mph, the central monocoque can remain intact and the driver walk away. (Grosjean's recent car breaker notwithstanding, though he did walk away.). F1 cars are the fastest they've ever been, yet they're safer than they've ever been. IMOCAs aren't so far along this development path but the analogy is quite clear to me.

I just don't see how those sailors are safer in their Imocas !!!!!
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Old 04-12-2020, 15:16   #324
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Re: Vendee 2020

it all boils down to this imo...all technology aside....
in F1, rescue can get to you in an instant with an army of medical and other professionals...
in Vendee , rescue is basically up to a fellow competitor...and it may take some time before he/she arrives....if they can find you at all...
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Old 04-12-2020, 15:53   #325
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Re: Vendee 2020

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Sheesh, the comparison point is the common levels of cutting edge technologies and design in the quest for more speed and winning races, not that one is day long and the other months long.


Exactly.
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Old 04-12-2020, 15:59   #326
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Re: Vendee 2020

Correct.
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Exactly.
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Old 04-12-2020, 16:02   #327
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Re: Vendee 2020

I am building a steel boat with foil .
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:47   #328
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Re: Vendee 2020

Go for it.

But be sure to go to the absolute edge of strength to weight limit to be competitive....

Apart from that it's unlikely to be able to fly, because it will turn out to heavy even then.
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:12   #329
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Vendee 2020

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I just don't see how those sailors are safer in their Imocas !!!!!

IMOCAs are safer than most racing and production boats of the last 50 years, but that doesn't mean that the Vendee Globe is a safe event. It's a high risk race.
They're safer because they're faster and stronger so they're not out there for so long. 70 days instead of more than 100 just a few years ago, so fewer storms to negotiate. Their downwind speed means they can to some extent stay ahead of the rollers. Moitessier was one of the early circumnavigators to point out the safety advantages of speed in downwind conditions. They need to be slowed sometimes to avoid nosediving, (cf PRB.).
Modern materials are immensely strong, though they have their limits.
Would a production GRP boat withstand the sort of punishment they do? I doubt it. Would a wooden boat? Some would undoubtedly, if in perfect condition. Steel, yes, but note the point above about them being slow and therefore out there longer. Aluminium is certainly strong enough, but carbon fibre is stronger.

http://www.dexcraft.com/articles/car...-of-materials/

IMOCAs are the end product of more than 30 years development for specifically the conditions they're in.
So all in all, if I wanted to sail the Southern ocean, which I don't, an IMOCA would be high on my list of boats to do it in. Along with a skipper who knows how to sail one!
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:07   #330
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Re: Vendee 2020

my first boat was steel.....on a rare occasion....it would....sometimes....see 10 knots flying down the face of a wave...at which point control was borderline....
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