Vagabond 47- Force 50 - Formosa 51 Info?

[watson1990]

Hi all,
I am beginning my search for a retirement boat. While I am not stuck on this design,it has really caught my eye and my heart.
I am curious if someone might be able to tell me where to look or perhaps provide right here,drawings of the hull design of the following: The Vagabond 47, the Force 50 and the Formosa 51. I am most interested in the keel design at this moment and once I have learned the differences I can then move on to the next step.
I am not particularly interested in a pilothouse if that helps to eliminate any superfluous info .. I love the C.C. Aft cabin design.
This is a journey of a thousand miles and I have only taken 3 steps...please help me and show me the way ..
Oh,,,as an example I love the looks of Angelique,but she will be sold before I can buy .I am at least one year away ,possibly more like two years out.
Thanks in advance for any help you all might be able to provide
Watson

[Hampus]

Hey!

Join the Formosa group Formosa41 : Formosa41 for the William garden designed boats (Vagabond 47 and Formosa 51).

/Hampus

[seapup]

Hi Watson, I've attached a line drawing of the Vagabond Voyager 47'. We're nearly 5 years aboard one and have extensively restored and upgraded..never done, but enjoying the process. Here in Kona Kai Marina, San Diego we've had friends / neighbors on all of those hulls in all kinds of shape..also the "Lost Soul" that was Lats & Atts mag publisher's ultra-equipped Formosa 51' is currently languishing at a broker's dock around the corner in America Cup Harbor. If the Garden CC ketches grab you just be sure your surveys (we did in/out/underway; as well as a power plant and rig surveys) are thorough and your capabilities / pocketbook will get the requisite tasks accomplished. Then you can shine on those who shrill, "leaky teakiy" and "Taiwan Turkey" as you'll have a very stout and stately proper yacht.

[jackiepitts]

FYI The Bob Bitchens Lost Soul is actually a Formosa 56 not a 51. Amazing what 5 feet will do to a boat
Jackie

[watson1990]

my reason for asking for drawings is because i want to compare the keels . While i hope to live long enough to spend a few years in the B.V.I.'s sleeping, i do hope to do the canal and across the pacific and then down under . And so ,the best of the 3 worlds would be lovely...any opinions from here on the differences in the 3 keels ? A shoal would be just dandy for the BVI's but across the big blue might be a whole 'nother story . the Vagabond 47 is such a lovely boat for 2 ,,,the Force 50 is so balanced but that Formosa ,in some cases with the sprit and davits is 60 feet and might be a bit much for the two of us ..but My God,,,she is beautiful !!. I really need opinions here! lots and lots of opinions ...keep 'em coming !! I won't be offended ..Please let me here from you ALL.

Watson

[bob perry]

Watson:
you don't need drawings. The keels are all essentially the same full keel type with the only difference being draft.

[camaraderie]

Here's a review of the Vagabond. Used Boat Review
Draft is 5'6" in a full keel...see picture....which is fine for both bahamas and ocean.
Based on your choices...it seems you have fallen in love with the lines and style of 3 boats which have a reputation for huge leaky rotten deck and pilothouse problems, built by taiwan yards who did not use high quality materials, boats which are heavy, slow and not close winded and designed for trade wind sailing requiring stronger winds to move along. They all have beautiful interiors and good tankage and make great liveaboards. These boats are all around 30 years old now and SHOULD have been rather completely torn up and put back together by a PO by now...but many are still in seriously poor shape once you get past the pretty varnish. This accounts for the huge variations in price you will find. We have good friends who have a 47Vag and it has been a solid boat and a constant repair job...but they love it and living aboard it throughout the Caribe.
Just be sure you know exactly what you are getting. The individual boat condition will be far more important than the choice between boats and I think your initial focous on keel design is entirely misplaced.

[Jolly Roger]

For two years I have looked at Vagabonds, Hudsons and Formosas and agree 100% with Camaraderie and Bob Perry. They hit the nail squarely on the head about all these models, but it still comes down to individual choice, what a person wants a boat for, and how much money they have.

[seapup]

Yup, everyone's right on the mark here - including Jackie's correcting me on 56' vs. 51' for Lost Soul. There are materials / workmanship issues to look for to determine whether someone (like us) has already replaced all the inferior stainless tanks, re-caulked and re-screwed the teak decking, rebuilt the dorade boxes and hatches, and re-gasketed all ports, resulting in dry people spaces and bilges.

[watson1990]

I also want to learn if any ONE boat is superior to the other two ,perhaps because it has a full keel as opposed to a shoal draft .

""The individual boat condition will be far more important than the choice between boats and I think your initial focous on keel design is entirely misplaced. ""

I understand what you are saying but I disagree. My reason for needing this info is because I am expecting a boat that needs a complete refit/rebuild. BUt ,If one is a better boat ,all things being equal ,then I want to know. I am hoping to to avoid that time proven error : an example is the guy who buys an old MGB and restores her to near perfect. He spent $ 20,000.00 and now has a beutiful car worth $12,000.00
I realize that they all need certain items to be rebuilt or replaced unless I buy one from someone who is selling theirs,all ready gone through.
The condition of the boat I buy will be known to me before I sign on the dotted line, but now that I know that all 3 keels are pretty much the same, [ thank you ,Bob ] I can pick the boat that best suits my needs without the keel design pushing me in the direction of one boat over either of the other two..

Watson

[bob perry]

Watson:
There is no substitute for draft.
That said, none of these models will go to weather very well anyway so whacking off 12" of draft probably isn't the end of the world. If you were really concerned with upwind performance you wouldnt be looking at any of these boats.

[watson1990]

Nope, not looking for upwind performance. Just a solid hull [ foundation] on which to hang all the various parts.
In reality,i want a stable boat to leave in the BVI's year round and if I am lucky [health wise] I will make it to OZ and/ New zealand once.Maybe up around Washington/BC once would be nice.
then back to Virgin Gorda and float around a bit ....
I'm really not asking for much .Basically a summer cottage that I can move from place to place once in a while
Watson

[bob perry]

Go for it. It's presumptuous of me to try and tell you what upwind performance you need. Many people enjoy that type of boat. It's just not my type of boat. Hope you find a good one.

[watson1990]

Bob,
Not at all. You would be spot on with 999 out of every 1000. In my case i have thought about it and here is what I have come up with.
I love to sail so a sailboat is quite logical. Here in northern New England, a piece of waterfront ,,,even a 1/2 acre starts at 1/2 mil....if you are lucky to find it .Most cases you are looking at $1.25-$1.5 million plus for an acre.
So I thought" why not get the sailboat I really like,one that is really liveable and spend 5-6 months each winter in the islands: perhaps one winter in BVI's and the next in turks or Barbados.
Each spring ,fly home to New England [ New Hampshire & Maine ]
and spend 6 months there ...a summer cottage with beach rights and mooring rights can be had for $200,000 plus or just take my Airstream for a "walkabout"
This is prolly the least expensive way to sail and have waterfront property !
As long as I am healthy what the heck !!!
I don't need to have the fastest or the newest boat ,,just one that will move from place to place and stay afloat ...the better she does the latter the better !

[camaraderie]

Watson...good luck to you. You're going into it with your eyes wide open and you've been informed of the upside and downside and are perfectly capable of making a decision for yourself.
Please keep us posted on your further progress.