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Old 24-10-2020, 17:39   #1
GS3
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Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Not too long there was a thread by someone who wanted to dispose of a sailboat (about 27'?) but could not find buyers and he was considering breaking it up for parts. I cannot find the thread now and would appreciate someone who could find it.

This thread is along a similar vein. I thought of putting it in the Boat Classifieds section but that requires posting more information than I really have at this point. Mods please move this thread if you feel it fits better in another section of the forums.

I own a Caliber 33 sailboat which has been in dry storage for about twenty years now. It is located on the Chesapeake Bay, somewhat south of Annapolis.

I put her in dry storage hoping to sail her again soon but the best laid plans of mice and men and all that got in the way and it has finally become evident that it is not going to happen. In fact, I should have disposed of the boat long time ago but I kept my hope up as long as I could. Finally, I have come to realize that it makes no sense to keep paying for storage for a boat which I will not be able to sail again and, with much regret and heavy heart, I need to do something.

I am located in Europe and the boat is located on the Chesapeake Bay so it is not like I can take care of things personally in situ.

I exchanged emails with a broker and he has seen the boat and told me it is not something he would be interested in because they are interested in more expensive boats, ready to sail and which would yield a nice commission.

I have been advised that I can donate it to some non-profit but I want to make an effort to recoup some of the value and some of the thousands paid in storage over the years. I believe the boat has some value which can be realized and which I would like to recoup if at all possible. My financial situation requires that I try my best to get what I can.

As the OP of the other thread said, there is plenty of value in the boat if broken up but, realistically, I am not there to break it up and, even then, many other complications come up.

Iíve been told the boat is an unknown and buyers are looking for boats ready to sail away.

If I were there I could prepare her for show and sail but as I am an ocean away that is out of the question.

I believe it would make a nice renovation project and I am only sorry I cannot be there and do it myself.

I have thought of maybe trying to contact some mechanicís or boat repair shop who could do a basic review and preparation.

So, I am looking for advice and maybe help in trying to dispose of the boat.
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Old 24-10-2020, 17:47   #2
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Do you mean to say she has been sitting in a yard, outside, for 20 years?

I have gone and looked at a boat for someone who could not get there. Annapolis is a bit far for me right now but maybe someone else could.

But also some additional info would be helpful.

When was the last time the engine ran?
Do you have sails?

Is this your boat?
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/caliber-33
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Old 24-10-2020, 18:07   #3
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

I remember that thread, is the one for which you are looking?

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-240058.html
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Old 24-10-2020, 18:10   #4
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Seen youtubers buy inferior boats and bring them around, I would be very surprised if you had to donate a Caliber 33 unless it was stored outside and the cover failed. I would love to have a boat like that and wish I was ready to have one.
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Old 24-10-2020, 19:03   #5
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Brokers here generally charge 10% or minimum $3000, call some more brokers and see if they are interested in a guaranteed commission at closing.
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Old 24-10-2020, 20:32   #6
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS3 View Post
Not too long there was a thread by someone who wanted to dispose of a sailboat (about 27'?) but could not find buyers and he was considering breaking it up for parts. ...
I've been involved with 'breaking up' a number of yachts. Cutting up and disposing of a GRP boat is a significant undertaking, usually a couple of days work. And the stark reality is the cost of disposal is always way more than any value gained from selling parts. By the time most boats get to this stage the engine will need an overhaul, the lead in the keel almost always turns out to be pig iron, and the deck hardware is 30 or 40 years old, running rigging sun worn and tired. Mildew, bugs and damp will have all found a cosy environment. Who wants to buy an old motor, mast, winches etc? Not many.

Expecting to gain some return because of 20 years paying storage is overly optimistic. The moneys spent, it's gone.

And obviously no broker can, with any honesty, take on such a neglected artifact. What could the broker do when a prospective buyer asks to take the yacht for a test sail? I expect that's one email the broker will neglect to answer.

It's a common story, whether dry storage (whatever that means) or marina fees or yard fees; old man time will have always been at work. For the vast majority of such boats they're waiting for their owners to either realise that the dream, long since neglected and forgotten, has died or that they themselves pass on and their family, without the sentimentality, cleans up.

The problem now is the future storage fees.

Solve the problem, get rid of the boat, however painful the disposal, and move on.
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Old 25-10-2020, 00:16   #7
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Do you mean to say she has been sitting in a yard, outside, for 20 years?

I have gone and looked at a boat for someone who could not get there. Annapolis is a bit far for me right now but maybe someone else could.

But also some additional info would be helpful.

When was the last time the engine ran?
Do you have sails?

Is this your boat?
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/caliber-33
Yes, that is my boat. I will be adding information to this thread about my boat as it comes to my memory.

The standing rigging was in good condition and I do not expect it would deteriorate but I suppose it would have to be inspected to be sure. It has a roller-furling jib, a standard reef mainsail and a genoa but I do not remember the size.

A couple nice winches for the mainsail and a smaller one for the halyards.

Two anchors and a dinghy on deck (if they have not been stolen).

The hull and deck were in reasonably good condition when I was sailing and I do not expect much if any deterioration while she has been in dry storage. No leaks or problems but I suppose an inspection is warranted.

Regarding brightwork, the boat has almost no exterior wood. I can only remember the handrails on deck and the companionway boards. I expect them to be in the state you would expect them to be after twenty years of no maintenance. And only stainless steel outside.

The boat has a dodger and I expect the metal framing would be OK but the fabric to have deteriorated and need to be replaced.

The motor I expect should be in reasonably good working order. It would need an oil change and little more to get it going again. New batteries, obviously.

The boat had a radar, depth sounder, speed log and other electronics which I am going to assume are very much out of date and would need to be replaced. You would have a blank slate there. Let's assume all electronics need to be replaced.

Regarding the domestic living:

I expect all the interior wood, furniture and fittings to be in reasonably good state, probably needing cleaning. Probably the foam cushions need to be replaced.

The galley has a compressed natural gas stove which works well. CNG is a bit more difficult to find than propane but has the advantage of being lighter than air and not settling in the bilge. No refrigeration, only icebox.

There's a small (window type) air conditioner that fits on a special companionway board. It worked well with the limitation that the companionway cannot be used while the a/c is in place. Mainly I would install it before turning in for the night but I could still use the forward hatch for exit.

It does have a working head with a holding tank.

It does have a working domestic water system with electric pump, hot water tank, etc.
I do not expect it needs much work if any to bring all the domestic water system into service.

I was very happy with how all that worked and remember taking comfortable showers and having water service just like at home. I spent time living aboard and it was a comfortable boat to live in.

The electrical system was in good working order but twenty years later I would replace all the incandescent lights with LEDs which would be easy to do.

In summary, I believe the electronics is the main aspect that needs a lot of attention and the rest of the boat could be made ready to live and sail without major replacements or work. Someone could start sailing and expect to give the boat more maintenance than a new boat, repairing and replacing things as they go, etc.
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Old 25-10-2020, 00:23   #8
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
I remember that thread, is the one for which you are looking?

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-240058.html
That's the one! Thanks!
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Old 25-10-2020, 00:58   #9
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

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Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
Brokers here generally charge 10% or minimum $3000, call some more brokers and see if they are interested in a guaranteed commission at closing.
Yes, I have checked with several brokers and they are only interested in boats which will sell upwards of $40K and I understand why and don't blame them.

They have advised me to try to sell it myself using CraigsList, eBay, etc. but, because I am not on site that is just not feasible for me.

I believe it would make a good project for someone who knows how to do basic work and has time to do it. A fixer-upper and they could end up with a boat worth much more than what it cost them.
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Old 25-10-2020, 01:09   #10
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

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Originally Posted by Lazy1 View Post
Seen youtubers buy inferior boats and bring them around, I would be very surprised if you had to donate a Caliber 33 unless it was stored outside and the cover failed. I would love to have a boat like that and wish I was ready to have one.
I agree. I believe the boat still has value if I can find the right buyer. I believe it is worth looking for a buyer for some weeks or months before I give up.

It obviously has some value for charities and they are extremely easy to find. It will have some value to a few people who are not easy to locate but it is worth a try.

The main issue is that I am not there.
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Old 25-10-2020, 07:09   #11
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS3 View Post
Yes, that is my boat. I will be adding information to this thread about my boat as it comes to my memory.

The standing rigging was in good condition and I do not expect it would deteriorate but I suppose it would have to be inspected to be sure. It has a roller-furling jib, a standard reef mainsail and a genoa but I do not remember the size.

A couple nice winches for the mainsail and a smaller one for the halyards.

Two anchors and a dinghy on deck (if they have not been stolen).

The hull and deck were in reasonably good condition when I was sailing and I do not expect much if any deterioration while she has been in dry storage. No leaks or problems but I suppose an inspection is warranted.

Regarding brightwork, the boat has almost no exterior wood. I can only remember the handrails on deck and the companionway boards. I expect them to be in the state you would expect them to be after twenty years of no maintenance. And only stainless steel outside.

The boat has a dodger and I expect the metal framing would be OK but the fabric to have deteriorated and need to be replaced.

The motor I expect should be in reasonably good working order. It would need an oil change and little more to get it going again. New batteries, obviously.

The boat had a radar, depth sounder, speed log and other electronics which I am going to assume are very much out of date and would need to be replaced. You would have a blank slate there. Let's assume all electronics need to be replaced.

Regarding the domestic living:

I expect all the interior wood, furniture and fittings to be in reasonably good state, probably needing cleaning. Probably the foam cushions need to be replaced.

The galley has a compressed natural gas stove which works well. CNG is a bit more difficult to find than propane but has the advantage of being lighter than air and not settling in the bilge. No refrigeration, only icebox.

There's a small (window type) air conditioner that fits on a special companionway board. It worked well with the limitation that the companionway cannot be used while the a/c is in place. Mainly I would install it before turning in for the night but I could still use the forward hatch for exit.

It does have a working head with a holding tank.

It does have a working domestic water system with electric pump, hot water tank, etc.
I do not expect it needs much work if any to bring all the domestic water system into service.

I was very happy with how all that worked and remember taking comfortable showers and having water service just like at home. I spent time living aboard and it was a comfortable boat to live in.

The electrical system was in good working order but twenty years later I would replace all the incandescent lights with LEDs which would be easy to do.

In summary, I believe the electronics is the main aspect that needs a lot of attention and the rest of the boat could be made ready to live and sail without major replacements or work. Someone could start sailing and expect to give the boat more maintenance than a new boat, repairing and replacing things as they go, etc.

OK and very good.

Unless you have some feedback from the yard you are making one very large assumption here; the boat is closed up and water tight.

For whatever reason that confounds me I frequently see boats on the hard with their companionways wide open. No sane person would do this, yet it is common, especially for boats with absentee owners. Maybe someone breaks in looking for goodies and they never get put back? Who knows. I see it all the time.

Beyond that Annapolis can have significant snow, which can and does effect boats poorly. You can get, I have had, significant down flooding from the snow melt getting into otherwise secure areas. Scuppers, cockpit drains clog, through hulls fail. Etc.

Hopefully you have contact with the yard and can indeed confirm the boat is sealed and water tight.

Otherwise you will need some kind soul to go by the boat and send you a condition report, a few pictures. Not a survey, but a gross description. Are trees growing in the cockpit? Is the companionway in place? Is the hull deformed from the stands?

Silly questions. Who has the key to the boat? Will the yard assist, provide a ladder, allow someone besides you onboard?

I would gladly do this but I am 5 hours away from Annapolis. If no one closer volunteers to assist, and you get really, really stuck I could arrange to get past the boat in late November. Admiral willing.

If you do not have it, if the yard can not verify the condition and send you photos, you need to have a hands on assessment of gross condition.

It is very conceivable, not probable but possible, you have a zero value asset.

If you have not done that consideration you need to. 20 years is a very long time to sit.

My sincere hopes the boat is in the condition you have in mind.
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Old 25-10-2020, 07:23   #12
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Is the boat documented or state registered? Have you kept up with registration fees, etc? Will the next owner have to jump through the hoops to register/document? Does the yard have any liens or claims against it for past due fees? And all of these questions assume the boat is restorable to sailaway condition at a cost less then a well found boat of this brand.

My unsolicited advice would be to find a charity which will take it. And talk to your accountant to see if you can write of the donation value, etc. Most likely you can if you're filing US tax forms.
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Old 25-10-2020, 07:47   #13
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

The common thread here is that neither you nor we know what you really have. The advice to ask the yard to have someone take pictures inside and out, if they will, is good. If it it looks salvageable, you might want to pay for a survey, fix a low price, and advertise it yourself...offering the survey in lieu of personally showing it. Also, most yards can probably refer you to someone who can help with the paperwork for something less than a full commission if you find a buyer.
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Old 25-10-2020, 08:24   #14
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

Realistically, I think you're trying to have it both ways- take care of the problem the easy way by outsourcing to a broker, AND make some money from the boat.

I don't blame brokers for not wanting to touch your boat, it's not worth the trouble for them.

If you want it easy, donate the boat, or just stop paying yard bills and they will be forced to deal with it (but that would not be high on the integrity scale).

If you want to make some money from it, sell it privately, for cheap, and a motivated buyer who is excited about what a great boat they are getting for such a great deal will solve the problems for you about access, inspection, removal, etc.
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Old 25-10-2020, 08:48   #15
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Re: Trying to sell or otherwise dispose of Caliber 33

I don't believe that you answered one of the questions asked. Is it stored INSIDE, or OUTSIDE? Means a lot when you consider no maintenance/oversight for 20 years. If stored inside, the boat may be salvageable. If stored outside for 20 years with no preventative maintenance . . . . best bet is to donate IMHO. Good luck in whatever you decide.
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