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Old 21-03-2020, 14:08   #1
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Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Sailing a Mini Transat 6.50 well means you need to pay attention to stacking - moving heavy gear, stores, drinking water, sails etc to get the best performance & comfort for the sailing conditions. Moving weight to the windward side & fore & aft is best achieved when you have containers & bags to fit stacking locations & lockers and you have secure tie downs or fasteners to hold in place whatever you are stacking.
I have read a lot of articles and forum threads but haven't read anything about how trailer sailors have modified their boats' interiors or bought gear to enable packing & stacking to be done efficiently. Boat reviews often comment on a small boat's stability but none I have read talk about how moving gear as internal ballast can be done in a particular design to effect stability.
Many trailerables use a hoist to raise and lower a dagger board or swing keel. I haven't read how that lifting gear can be used to quickly & safely move 150 libs from starboard to port.
I find it hard to believe trailer sailors don't want to sail faster, safer, more comfortably. I am looking to buy a boat and after owning a Mini stacking is a question I have when I look at all the popular designs - Catalina, Montgomery, West Wight Potter etc.
Can anyone share their ideas, experience and thinking about stacking with their boat?
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Old 21-03-2020, 14:17   #2
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Cover the cabin sole with cases of beer.
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Old 21-03-2020, 16:27   #3
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian NAMT View Post
Can anyone share their ideas, experience and thinking about stacking with their boat?
Small non-TRANSAT trailerable sailboats are often tacked/gybed a bit more frequently than their admired TRANSAT sisters. So, no, we're not likely to be shifting cabin weight around several times an hour.

I suspect that the heel profiles are different too. Our little boat doesn't go any better past about 15 degrees of heel, and even singlehanded I can still get near optimum balance just with body position (and a good tiller extension).

But yes there has been much cleverness from small trailerable owners when it comes to gear stowing. Our best setup so far is for stuff stowed in the port aft quarterberth area:
  • a 28" L x 18" W x 7" H plastic container with lid and wheels
  • two 14" x 14" plastic containers with lids, that sits on top of the rolling container
  • a butane stove and various other things (eg cereal boxes) on top of those
These contain all our dishware, cutlery, utensils, pots and pans, and spices/seasonings. The whole mess rolls in and out of the quarterberth area very sweetly. If we pack it properly, we only have to pull it out partially to do lunch while underway. Breakfast and dinner requires pulling this all the way out to open all containers as needed, but all stowed before sleeping.

We got some surplus dinghy sailbags - long and thin, cut them into approx. 4' tubes, installed a lengthtwise zipper and sewed up the ends, and now we have 4 easy-access "sausage" bags for our clothes that sort of double as cabin cushions. We thought that was pretty clever too.
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Old 23-03-2020, 17:05   #4
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

I have cruised on a Mini and did much less stacking than one would when racing. So I do appreciate the need for beer and Zen time. Still most of the trailer sailor posts on cooking and packing gear focus on making or buying types of containers. Sales posts focus on the number and location of lockers.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ways of stowing. I need to think more about those too. Stacking is still a question for me at this time - how best to, not whether I need to.
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Old 25-03-2020, 10:46   #5
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

OK, haven't tried doing this, but if I were to think about it, remember you are reducing the amount of useable volume if you are prepared to move ballast back and forth. And would the benefit really outweigh that need for volume loaded with stores for a long trip? Probably not, when you consider the advantage to putting 150lbs closer to the windward rail vs. keeping it all as low and centralized as possible in the first place. I confess I don't know the math on that, but given the need for storage volume in a little boat, stacking it from time to time, even if switching the light things for heavy things and utilizing the entire interior volume that way, I am guessing, would be considered a worthless hassle after a few tacks when cruising, unless you know you'll be on the same tack for more than a day. You'll certainly get more benefit of the leverage you'll get from moving your own 150lbs out on a plank like these guys!
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Old 25-03-2020, 11:41   #6
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

For myself, if I were worried about stacking in a trailer sailor I'd be inclined to get a Hobie Magic 25, much more fun than carrying stuff back and forth.

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Old 25-03-2020, 17:54   #7
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

I had never heard this term. Other than suggesting my crew occasionally moving to a different spot, it is not an idea I would be interested in pursuing. The variable I want to optimize is not maximum boat speed, but minimum effort to get say 80% of maximum speed. The 80/20 rule.
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Old 25-03-2020, 18:08   #8
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Trying to picture this from a functional perspective. Your close hauled to port, and have everything stowed on starboard side, at least all of the heavy stuff, then you need to tack over, so you do that, then you run into cabin and start moving all the gear to Port and secure it again, just to gain a little more speed? Is that the idea?
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Old 25-03-2020, 18:23   #9
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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Originally Posted by BugzyCan View Post
Trying to picture this from a functional perspective. Your close hauled to port, and have everything stowed on starboard side, at least all of the heavy stuff, then you need to tack over, so you do that, then you run into cabin and start moving all the gear to Port and secure it again, just to gain a little more speed? Is that the idea?


Thatís the idea.....
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Old 25-03-2020, 19:04   #10
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Trailer stacking?
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Old 25-03-2020, 19:10   #11
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

51 MOVABLE BALLAST
All movable ballast, including sails that are not set, shall be properly
stowed. Water, dead weight or ballast shall not be moved for the
purpose of changing trim or stability. Floorboards, bulkheads, doors,
stairs and water tanks shall be left in place and all cabin fixtures kept
on board. However, bilge water may be bailed out.

Did they suspend this rule for Mini-Transat racing?
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Old 25-03-2020, 19:29   #12
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

The answer here is really, really simple. Stacking sucks.

Moving ballast every tack is almost nobody's idea of a fun sail even if it makes the boat go 0.2 knots faster. I imagine those who think otherwise might be incapable of understanding that.

And it is against the rules for most races.
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Old 25-03-2020, 22:49   #13
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

I think it's becoming obvious I'm not a fan of work, or stacking.

Gougeon 32 trailer sailor, narrow cat, water ballast in each hull, pull a string to empty or fill underway -



I know I've seen a trailer sailor with outboard water ballast tanks, all I can find at the moment is the Pogo mini -

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Old 25-03-2020, 22:56   #14
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy stone View Post
51 MOVABLE BALLAST
All movable ballast, including sails that are not set, shall be properly
stowed. Water, dead weight or ballast shall not be moved for the
purpose of changing trim or stability. Floorboards, bulkheads, doors,
stairs and water tanks shall be left in place and all cabin fixtures kept
on board. However, bilge water may be bailed out.

Did they suspend this rule for Mini-Transat racing?
I assume the Minis used these sections -

Rule 86 Changes to Rules

86 1. (c) Class rules may change only racing rules 42, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53
and 54.


The rule you quoted is rule 51, so the class can change delete whatever.

Overview of keel designs and water ballast -
Keeltypes
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Old 25-03-2020, 23:10   #15
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I assume the Minis used these sections -

Rule 86 Changes to Rules

86 1. (c) Class rules may change only racing rules 42, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53
and 54.


The rule you quoted is rule 51, so the class can change delete whatever.

Overview of keel designs and water ballast -
Keeltypes
Pretty much all ocean racing boats stack sails on deck, and shifting sails below deck is also common, some cruising boats might do so. I have on occasion but Judy is strongly opposed to my dragging sails and a deflated dingy back and forth on every tack ever since I threw my back out on it once short tacking up to Yacht Haven in Phuket (a bit of a narrow channel).

But as far a shifting stores and goods below deck...it's quite a stretch to imagine that it'd be worth the effort, and if those heavy crates of food and spare parts are that moveable, God, I can't image what they'd do in a knock down.

Stow the heavy stuff low and in the center, that's what I'd say.
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