Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2021, 11:56   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 3
Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Hello,

My boyfriend and I are looking to buy a steel model under the advice of Rick Page (Get Real, Get Gone). We have undertaken a week-long beginners sailing course, but outside of this, we have next-to-no practical experience, and none buying a boat.
We wondered if you would be willing to share any advice, buying or otherwise, based on your experience with your boat and to give us your initial reaction to a listing that we are currently looking at?

Here is the link to the boat in question:

https://link.marktplaats.nl/m1645977213

Ive copied the translated text below if its more convenient.

One of our main questions is, does the asking price of 15,000 EUR (not accounting for negotiation) represent decent value considering the work we will need to undertake vs paying potentially twice that amount for one that is in better cosmetic condition, or has additional equipment? Weve watched a couple of other steel examples pass by listed for 34,000 EUR upwards, albeit appearing to be in better condition - at least - cosmetically.

I realise this is not a question with a simple answer, Im just looking for an initial impression from someone who has an experienced eye.

We appreciate any help you can give us,

Laurine and Oliver

Characteristics
Condition:
Used

Type:
Tour yacht or Cruiser

Material:
Steel

Length:
9 to 12 meters


Description
Good sailing steel Van de Stadt 34
built 1997
Length 10.25 x width 3.40 x Depth 1.80
Headroom 1.85
Built by Orchard yacht and then professionally clad
beautiful cushions and upholstery
3 burner stove with oven
Compressor
Motor Ruggerini 27 hp built in 1997 runs nicely and is well maintained
Mainsail with hood and jib on furling system
Sprayhood (needs to be stitched and new windows in)
Heating taylors with roof duct
Depth sounder
Log
Autopilot helm
Radio CD player
Also complete with lines of fenders and lots of spare material.

The ship is in good condition except for the paint system above the waterline and on deck. The epoxy surface is still in good condition and rust has therefore hardly had a chance.
The ship has not been used for 5 years due to circumstances and has been on the side all this time.
Including a lot of material such as paint and filler.
A nice project for this winter and certainly worth an inspection.

The ship is moored at the Offerhaus Shipyard in Middelharnis and can be viewed there by appointment and in compliance with the COVID regulations.
Inspections are of course allowed.

Price 15,000 euros including putting it back in the water. Storage (where painting is allowed!) Is paid until April.
Lthw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 17:47   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southport CT
Boat: J/36
Posts: 1,667
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Small steel sailboats rust just as fast as the bigger ones. They don't sail as fast though, because they're too heavy for their size. This is OK if you constantly sail in 20+knots of wind, but that much wind is likely to make a small boat heel a lot and be uncomfortable and wet. Steel ships like tankers are routinely built to last about 25 years before rust makes them economically unprofitable to maintain. This boat was built in 1997 and has issues with the paint... This would make one suspect that it has problems with rust, which might call for sandblasting the entire hull, (inside AND out) and repainting everything. The fact that they actually mention the word 'rust' in the listing is not a good sign. You would have to do all this work while hoping that the thickness of the remaining steel would be sufficient to keep the water out for another few years. It is possible, but not cheap, to measure how thick the steel is. 15K Euros probably reflects the problems this boat has. Also worth noting is that most steel boats rust from the inside out. Condensation on the inside in places that are difficult or impossible to access causes rust to start there first. Fixing this can involve removing all the interior furniture. Fiberglass boats may have problems with osmosis, but that is a much simpler fix which, once done, is done. Rust never sleeps.
psk125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 20:15   #3
registered user
 
HankOnthewater's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: West Australia
Boat: plastic production yacht, suitable for deep blue water ;)
Posts: 716
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

If you were to buy a steel boat, never buy one that has been recently painted, as fresh paint can hide a lot of problems, only to appear in 12 or 24 months.
The ad says that boat has not been used for 5 years and I guess not maintained. The photos show that a paint job is needed on the outside, but there are no rusts streaks visible. That is very good news, unless photos of rusts has been omitted in the ad.

As has been said, boats often rust from the inside. So check the inside:
- anchor locker
- all the bilges from bow to stern. Looks like the bilges might be very shallow, so also look either side of the bilges.
- check if the hull just above the stringers (horizontal flat steel bars), as often water will sit in that and rust will form there, particularly if there are no draining holes in such stringers
- underneath/inside anything that is bolted through the deck, ie winches, windows, blocks, stanchions (although I expect the latter to be welded)
- around hull fittings (water intakes, toilet outlet, exhaust outlet)
- if the mast is keel stepped (although don't think so), and if it is deck stepped, still check the support post right in the bottom of the bilge, as this post is likely mild steel and..... mixing with some saltish water there....
- check water and fuel tanks, they might be rusty if they are made out of steel.

Before you take it out on a test sail (sea-trial), check the prop shaft gland, after 5 years of non-use it will leak, better to replace it while it is on the hard, before you go.
Also get someone with mechanical knowledge to look at the engine before you take it out, ie check the quality of fuel, oil, impellers, filters, compression etc.

Goede vaart!
__________________
Wishing you all sunny skies above, clear water below, gentle winds behind and a safe port ahead,
and when coming this way check https://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Albany,_Australia
HankOnthewater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 20:45   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Compass 790 , 7.9 metres or 26 ft
Posts: 2,121
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Welcome to the forum
I wouldnt describe a van der stat 34 as a good saliing boat. Compared to a tubby bilge keeler maybe. IMO they are slow & dont point well. however that may not be important to you. They aren't really terrible, just there are a lot that are better.

Sailed on one frm Vanuatu to NZ so not much experience on one.

Personally I'd rather have an FRP boat anyday especially in that short length & I have have been a welder/steel fabricator.

Min length for a steelie is around 45ft frm memory so the hull weight is not too high in proportion as psk says

As previous posters point out steelies can be a lot of work.
If the initial paint system was real good they can last a fair while.
Many people seem to be fixated on the hull strength idea. Certainly if it was going in the ice it would help for peace of mind.



You can run up a lot of $$$ quickly if the gear is worn out so you need to inspect everything & see what needs replacing. The hull paint is just a start.


Cant comment on price as have no idea of the market in Holland but its a helluva lot less than just building the hull.
If you decide you want it make a lowball offer would be my guess as steelies can be hard to move at least in NZ but may well be different where you are.
As you stated its not a simple question to answer.
Compass790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 21:25   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Rio Dulce, Guatemala
Boat: Pearson 367 cutter
Posts: 507
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

I like Rick Page and have read the book you mentioned. As others have said, a steel boat under 40ft doesn't make a lot of sense from a weight perspective. As a first time buyer you are going to be up to your ears learning about boat maintenance. It's doable but there is a LOT to learn. Adding the maintenance of steel boat is just masochistic. If you have $30k there are a ton of 35ft fiberglass boats that might need updating but are basically sound.
__________________
I started with nothing and I still have most of it left.
LLCoolDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 22:55   #6
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,126
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Quote: "Een mooi project dus voor deze winter en zeer zeker een inspectie waard."

Ouch!! Talk about a big red flag! Anything a broker/agent describes as "een mooi project" whether in Dutch or in English should be viewed with the greatest suspicion, particularly by novices. Only novices would fall for the pitch!

ANYTHING is "een inspectie waard", but the reason for that is that by inspecting a junker you will learn a LOT about what NOT to buy. One of our respected members is a professional surveyor and has most generously made available his "Surveying 101" to our members, and here it is:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection.

Read it. Then read it again. THEN, but not before, go for an "inspectie".

IMO steel is NOT an appropriate hull material for a novice's first boat. Only "glass reinforced plastic" ("GRP" or "fiberglass") is suitable in that employment, and there are very, very good reasons why that is so. We can discuss what those reasons are whenever you are ready to do so :-)

There are, of course, variations in the costs of boat-keeping from one locale to another. Remember that ACQUISITION COSTS and OWNERSHIP COSTS are two entirely different things. Here on the west coast of Canada you cannot expect to keep a 34 foot fibreglass boat in sound condition for an OWNERSHIP cost of less than Can$15,000 (say 10,000 Euros) a year. So the moment you sign on the dotted line for Eu15,000 you will commit to that amount plus any applicable taxes PLUS another 10K for a total approaching 30K euros during the first your of ownership. And 10K Euros a year thereafter for as long as you own the boat!

A steel boat will cost you more unless you are a proficient metal worker with a lot of expensive tools at your disposal that young people usually don't have. AND unless you have a place ashore where you can wield those tools.

As you say you are novices, you should probably hang around here for a while. We are here to help! But do not get discouraged if our experienced members tell you some hard "home truths". They are known for that. And they do it for your own good :-)!

A further caution I see, and my fellow moderator Ann Cate will no doubt bear me out, is that you are the woman in the "team". Are you the driving force behind the desire to "live the dream", or are you the one doing the asking because you feel deep down that "living [this] dream" is not really what you want to do? Many an otherwise good relationship has foundered on the rocks of a "project boat".

Beste wense

TrentePieds
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:18   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 5
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Seems to be some miss information about steel boats posted above. Everyone has their preference and boat design is a compromise. I built a van der stadt 30 in steel and it's very similar to the 34. The boat is built frameless and is heavier than other materials but I can vouch that the proformance is good. Winning several cruising division race weeks. Also steel has a big advantage over other materials as it's very strong and can take a heavy grounding with out damage. My boat was new and in 8 years maintenance was minimal. 2 pack paint is long lasting. If it's been looked after it will outlast all of us.
Hendrik fiji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:49   #8
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 1,483
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Lthw the Ruggerini diesel would be a concern for me maybe. How hard are parts to get for that motor? For me if I was cruising overseas I would like a more common motor.
I notice the head lining looks like it is falling down in one of the photos? How old is the standing rigging? How old are the sails? All these things and the fact nothing has been used for five years means you are in for some surpri$e$.
I don't mind steel yachts, but it is the bits you cannot see that should be checked for rust.
Maybe $5000 is worth a gamble, at least that way you are not losing to much money if you have to give her away.
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 04:59   #9
Registered User
 
Andreas W's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Rgen, Germany
Boat: last boat: 2008 Dix 43 CC, steel, 43 ft
Posts: 81
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to Andreas W
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Have it surveyed, then you know. The Van de Stadt boats are nice steel boats, but in the end with a 20+ year old yacht the big question is how well it has been maintained. The Diesel engine is exotic, and I would put something more common in.
__________________
'The sea does not take sides.'
Andreas W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:05   #10
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,788
Images: 2
pirate Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

I owned a steel Van de Stadt 37 (stretched to 39 with a welded on hull section to make a bathing platform) and she sailed just fine.. As for the engine.. mine had a John Deere, about as well known as the Italian Ruggerini which is what I had in a Carter 30 I owned.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 11:37   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Ireland
Boat: Atkins,Island Princess. 37ft
Posts: 19
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

I know quite a lot about the Van de Stadt 34, having built one from plans and subsequently sailed 20,000 miles in the Atlantic and Med. For its size it offers good accommodation, it sails well, maybe not the fastest but still has good performance.
As others have pointed out, rust can be a big problem particularly on the inside if not protected well from the beginning. I would be less worried about the external surfaces, at worst the hull can be grit blasted and repainted. If there is an issue with inside rust it is extremely difficult to address without removing all the interior fittings. Looking at the pictures the vessel seems well fitted out, though requiring work, particularly the cockpit area. Without a close inspection it is impossible to give an assessment of the condition, My advice is if it suits your requirements have it professionally surveyed by a surveyor who is experienced in steel craft.
Maclir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 12:11   #12
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Land of 100,000 lakes
Boat: Boatless for now, looking!
Posts: 217
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maclir View Post
I know quite a lot about the Van de Stadt 34, having built one from plans and subsequently sailed 20,000 miles in the Atlantic and Med. For its size it offers good accommodation, it sails well, maybe not the fastest but still has good performance.
As others have pointed out, rust can be a big problem particularly on the inside if not protected well from the beginning. I would be less worried about the external surfaces, at worst the hull can be grit blasted and repainted. If there is an issue with inside rust it is extremely difficult to address without removing all the interior fittings. Looking at the pictures the vessel seems well fitted out, though requiring work, particularly the cockpit area. Without a close inspection it is impossible to give an assessment of the condition, My advice is if it suits your requirements have it professionally surveyed by a surveyor who is experienced in steel craft.

Only thing I can add, do not go with the Broker recommended surveyor. Others way more experienced than I, can fill in more.
__________________
Kaos, Panic, Disorder, my work here is done.
Midnight Son is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 12:45   #13
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: forest city
Boat: no boat any more
Posts: 1,830
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

why would anyone bolt aluminium cleats & toerail to a steelboat? There is not the tiniest spot of rust to be seen - I wonder, if she's really steel...
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 12:52   #14
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: forest city
Boat: no boat any more
Posts: 1,830
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

enginebearers look like aluminium...
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 13:58   #15
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cygnet, Tasmania
Boat: 12m aluminium centreboarder
Posts: 45
Re: Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik fiji View Post
Seems to be some miss information about steel boats posted above. Everyone has their preference and boat design is a compromise. I built a van der stadt 30 in steel and it's very similar to the 34. The boat is built frameless and is heavier than other materials but I can vouch that the proformance is good. Winning several cruising division race weeks. Also steel has a big advantage over other materials as it's very strong and can take a heavy grounding with out damage. My boat was new and in 8 years maintenance was minimal. 2 pack paint is long lasting. If it's been looked after it will outlast all of us.
As a retired marine surveyor and having owned a steel boat for may years I can confirm that Hendrik is correct and that a lot of what has been said here is simply misinformation. There is a lot of uninformed prejudice and bias about so be careful who you listen to.

The Van de Stadt 34 is a good design that sails well and (assuming it is correctly built) it will resist impact damage that would destroy most GRP boats. Most of us have gone aground from time to time (and especially when learning). Steel is very forgiving.

A well-built and well-painted steel boat can last for a long, long time if maintained correctly. I have inspected 40 year old steel boats that had no rust whatsoever and never had. The whole idea that maintenance on a steel boat is unending is a myth but it is true that you have to be careful to avoid letting any paint damage go unattended as rust can creep under good paint once it gets started. Cleanliness and good ventilation is the basic maintenance that is needed and these make on board living more pleasant anyway.

Steel boats do tend to rust from the inside so look in all the most inaccessible places (under motor/toilet/shower/bilge/anchor locker etc) using a powerful torch and mirror if needed. Particularly look for uneven layers of paint and explore these gently with a scraper. If there is any fresh paint over rust this is a very bad sign. At the very minimum all rust should be passivated (preferably removed completely) prior to over-coating.

Modern paints are excellent and if used correctly they are tough and very resistant to damage. It looks to me as if the undercoat/primer may be zinc rich epoxy which can cause blistering below the waterline externally.

This boat looks really good despite the cosmetics.

The idea that you cannot have a good steel cruising yacht under 12m is absolute rubbish. Obviously if it's built out of 6mm plate it will be too heavy to perform well but if it was built and rigged to Van de Stadt's specifications it will sail well. I do not know the builder so cannot comment.
adjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Van de Stadt Seal st anna Monohull Sailboats 41 03-06-2020 16:36
Van de Stadt thoughts? DewTheDewDude General Sailing Forum 8 01-01-2017 18:14
Steel Hull Van de Stadt 44 Design utahmonty Monohull Sailboats 12 09-11-2009 14:32
For Sale or Exchange: Van de Stadt 30 - '85 harpoon71 Classifieds Archive 1 27-07-2009 06:46
Van de Stadt 40 jemsea General Sailing Forum 6 21-07-2005 21:44

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.