Thomas Gilmer Aries 32

[Ciabi]

Originally Posted by iraspira

Hi There Les & Ciabi,

Nicely said. I've got Roughwater #16 (3/80) up in the Puget Sound. Great boat. Ciabi, looked at your pics, beautiful job.

Would love more info/pics on the chainplates. I've heard there is a horizontal bar welded across all 3 hidden behind the blocking. Have you seen this? Anyone drilled out the bolts from the outside and pull them for inspection?

Thanks, Ira
RW33 Enchantment

Ira- You're correct about the horizontal bar. It is glassed in and not an easy get, so to speak. The mounting studs were completely intact and did not show signs of corrosion any other than where there was water ingress from loosened bedding compound in the deck over the years, and the drip path is (was) clearly defined. I've attempted to attach a photo where you can see the bar that you speak of. I'll take another look tomorrow to see if I can get any better detailed images, but if you've got a Roughwater you're familiar with the assembly technique that was used.

[iraspira]

Thanks Ciabi,

Yes, that's the setup.

I would prefer to pull bolts from the outside, by locating and drilling out the countersink. Do we know if the cross-plate is welded to the bolts or just floating in there?

Ira

[Ciabi]

All;

Just found another Aries 32 for Sale here on the West Coast (in Oxnard).

Here's the posting: 32-FT ARIES SLOOP, 1987
Anchors Way Marine Center, Oxnard $17,500

Monitor vane, 4-cyl Westerbeke 33hp diesel. Too much to list. Currently in dry dock. Contact F. Quigley.
(541) 497-0224
03/17/2011

I'm hoping that perhaps he'll part with the windvane. If it is really a 1987, that must be one of the last Aries made in the series.

Ira, I can't verify about the horizontal bar without spending some time following my nose with a magnet in that area. I didn't have time to scope it out in LA this week when I was there. My Aries is getting loaded on a tractor trailer rig there Friday morning (in a few hours!) and is coming up to SF over the weekend. It will be here Monday and I'll have much easier access access (to the boat).

In the throes of doing my work on the chain-plates, we did moisture readings in that area of the deck and hull, and it came up very dry. I don't have any reason to suspect corrosion there at this time, but your point is valid if that is indeed the construction method used.

Chuck

[Aries 32]

That's a teak or mahogany bloch under that fiberglass not metal. The prior owner drilled weep holes in the glass. ... John Mann

[Ciabi]

John-

I remember reading TNT's survey and that issue had come up if I remember. Thanks for the info. Hope to see you Saturday night at BMC.

Thanks

C

[Les Blagg]

Surprised but delighted to see the thread still alive. As it happens, I pulled the chain plate studs this weekend. Interesting. Using a 1 1/8 hole saw and a washer on the stud to center (hole saw without pilot bit tends to wander) I was able to cut down to the embedded washer on the hex headed 3/8" (?) bolt that was reversed through the sill(?) to be a stud on interior side. The teak was in good shape as were the bolts. The bolt head and washers were epoxied in place on the sill prior to the slab being glassed to the hull. There was not any backing on the studs except the washer.The chainplates themselves were about OK, on two had the beginnings of some crevice corrosion. Those were where some through deck leaking had been noticed, repaired, noticed repaired etc.

All and all, this probably was overkill but I didn't know a non-destructive way to survey all this and now I will have piece of mind in a bad blow.

My plan is to go with standard Shaefer 84-80 304 SS Chainplates which have a different hole pattern. I will plug the existing lag bolt holes and the holes I made removing the studs with teak dowels glued with West System and then redrill.

I would appreciate any opinions on this plan of repair. I am also planning to replace the two lag bolt, two stud original setup with four lag bolts. Does that give anyone the heebie-jeebies?

[Aries 32]

Using 4 lag bolts gives me the heebie-jeebies. The benefit of the studs is that even if at some future date the teak block rots away or gets soft you've still got the fiberglass partially holding the studs, but with the lag bolts rotten wood might result in failure of all four at once ( they can't be more then a couple of inches long). Also if the studs did start to work loose you'd probably be able to notice it before they failed. I would suggest replicating the plug you drilled out with a new stud and epoxying it back in place and then reglass over the plug and around the stud since it's all sheer load so the glass and the block are really whats holding the chain plate in place and taking the load. I'd drill out the lag screw holes, drive in a epoxy coated plugs, redrill and reset the 2 lag bolts.

[Aries 32]

Just a question, was the teak wet when you opened it up?

[Les Blagg]

Not wet at all, felt good, smelled good. Except that I want to install new chainplates, I should have left them alone. There appears to be a fair amount of space between the sill (that's what I am calling it) and the hull so I am going to run a bunch of CPES back there until it starts to show in the upper holes.

RE: Lag bolts vs studs. The lag bolts can be about 3" before touching the hull.

The new fastener locations aren't going to match very closely to the holes I cut and I hesitate to plug those holes and then cut new ones. From where I am now I can see the translucent glow of the hull shining through. If I just can't rationalize lag bolts, I am only about 3/4" away from going through the hull and and using carriage bolts. Stronger and more shippy but I really don't want to look at the bolt heads on each side of the hull. Not any uglier than external chain plates I guess, maybe with paint...

[Ciabi]

Originally Posted by iraspira

Hi There Les & Ciabi,

Nicely said. I've got Roughwater #16 (3/80) up in the Puget Sound. Great boat. Ciabi, looked at your pics, beautiful job.

Would love more info/pics on the chainplates. I've heard there is a horizontal bar welded across all 3 hidden behind the blocking. Have you seen this? Anyone drilled out the bolts from the outside and pull them for inspection?

Thanks, Ira
RW33 Enchantment

Ira;

Les took up your challenge recently and inspected his by pulling the chain plate stud, and then using a hole saw to access the area. You might send him a private message for the sordid details.

Good Luck!

Chuck B.

[iraspira]

Thanks for the heads up Ciabi.

Les,
re. your (RE: Lag bolts vs studs. The lag bolts can be about 3" before touching the hull.) I've never seen chainplates on a serious boat installed with just LAGS (though I haven't gone looking either). I would NOT do it. In addition to what's been said, if there is any wiggling at all of the threaded ends of the lag, then it begins the *out of balance* loading of the bolt; which would lead to more movement, etc. I have lost a mast before and it's not something you want to take any chances with.

Regarding the look of the hull; I've always liked the look of the Pacific Seacraft(s) and I have thought, if I bored mine out, I would go that route.

Regarding your hole patterns and the Schaffers; I would not use them. Rather, I would either get some rough stock stainless of appropriate size and make them ( I have done this, not too difficult); or take the old to a quality shop and have them do it -- matching the hole pattern. I don't like the sound of extra holes, even if the old ones are plugged with epoxy. Epoxy does fail. There is really no need to drill the extra holes, when you have some already.

I have looked at the lags inside the boat and wondered why they are there. It's sort of an odd installation. They look a little smaller than the main bolts. IMHO, they may have been added to *pull* the chainplate more flush with the hull, or as an after thought for added strength. With the proper bend in the plate, I believe I would drill out one of the lag holes and add an additional through-bolt (making a total of 3).

Mind you, I don't have the project up on my to-do list yet; and with your observations, I might not. But, if we see you cruising around the Puget Sound, I promise not to laugh at the SS bolt heads on your hull. Instead, I might gaze in envy!

BTW, I did look at another RW up here, which sailed back from Hawaii and he added external plates.

All the best. Keep me posted. And, if you have a pic of that bolt hole, I'd love to see it, Ira

Let's see if I can find a picture:

[Les Blagg]

Thanks for being the good angels, that bad angel was getting me leaning. No lag bolts. I agree that the two top lags were probably just to snug the plate to the hull and reduce any inboard/outboard flexing in the free length from the two lower studs.

I am going to look hard at taking the bolts out through the hull. Three would be much stronger than original but I have to find a way to close the gap between the hull and embedded sill to avoid a crushing, inward flex to the hull. Also to shop the fabrication of something close to what I have. Actually, looking at these plates, they come close to being reversable with a little tooling. That puts the fatigued end 9 inches of meat away from the load.

I'll post some pictures this weekend.

[iraspira]

Les,

I like your idea of CPES. You might follow it with a full body epoxy mixture to fill the gap. Once cured you could rebore the holes and it should be very solid.

[Les Blagg]

I also thought that the dowel that would plug the hole would have the bore for the carriage bolt through it and that the dowel could be buttered on the end with a big, thick West HD glob and then tapped right up snug to the hull. Then the force of the tightend bolt would be against the dowel as much as the hull.

[Tim_H]

How many were built?