This will be interesting

[CrazyStoney]

Ok, so I sent an e-mail to DBY sales asking for a full inventory on this boat, plus any more pics they have and have received no reply I don't know why? Anywho. So what about this boat for 20KAud. It is not as livable BUT seems to be way better on a lot of fronts.
Used 31 Manitou for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

[Reefmagnet]

Manitou's are a very small 31 footer being a walk over centre cockpit with a canoe stern. They do have a nice rear deck area, however. There was a manitou newsgroup around many years ago, a google search might find the archive postings if it isn't active still. They're reputed to be a reasonable sea going boat from my recollection.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Insurance isn't just to cover yourself. It's the third party and public liability aspect that's important. What if your son smashes into something? Even knocking over a traffic light can cost tens of thousands.

There are many boats running round Sydney harbour that would require serious cash just to fix a scratch.

The insurance on that boat will be less than $20 per month. I would go to the same insurance company that the current owner has and check out if they would insure me as part of the decision/purchase process.

Ugly as boat by the way. I like it. Offer $9K as that's a good deal for both of you and more than it's worth. And just remember that whatever you pay will be difficult to get back. But hey, assuming it comes with a mooring, it will be the cheapest apartment in Pittwater.

Yes, that is liability insurance, you pretty much have to have that if you ever want to go to a marina, boat yard or even some mooring fields, and you should have it.
But it was not the kind of insurance I was speaking of

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by CrazyStoney

Ok, so I sent an e-mail to DBY sales asking for a full inventory on this boat, plus any more pics they have and have received no reply I don't know why? Anywho. So what about this boat for 20KAud. It is not as livable BUT seems to be way better on a lot of fronts.
Used 31 Manitou for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

Stoney, in your place I'd be asking for more detail about the hull construction. My own suspicion is that it hasn't got cement in the hull at all, but the ferrolite or a similar compound that Snow Petrel mentioned. I've never heard of using a normal fibreglass laminate over a steel matrix, but there were several techniques involving steel/polymer composites. The fact that it was built by a University makes me doubt that it was done with incompatible materials.

I would also be asking for some description of the hull shape and sail area. With that info, some idea of how she would sail becomes possible... something that I would consider very important. Should those numbers indicate poor sailing performance, then more info about engine and tankage becomes important. Lots of factors, not much nfo at present!

Meanwhile, keep looking with an open mind...

Jim

[RaymondR]

Hell, if it never left the mooring and was a barely livable live aboard for $20k it would appear that you could take it out beyond the Heads and sink it and still be way ahead financially on just an apartment rental in Sydney

[haiqu]

If there's any fibreglass in the hull I wouldn't touch this, it would be too unique and experimental. However it appears they're talking about the cabin being made of f'glass and not the hull. I don't think ferrolite even existed in 1970 but if anyone knows different please correct me on that.

Side deck width is typical for a yacht of this size, not an issue. Aesthetically it looks strange but that may be an artifact of the photos, I'd want to see it in real life to judge.

If it has a working Yanmar, good sails, instruments and a winch I'd say it's worth the asking price. It has survived for 46 years and traveled at least 13,000 miles after all. Biggest problem with most ferros is that they were never finished and sailed, or that they have been stripped of anything valuable. Neither case applies here. Go for it, I've seen a lot worse. It certainly suits your intended purpose of coastal sailing.

[dlymn]

Originally Posted by CrazyStoney

G'day everyone. Well thanks for so much for the great advice and food for thought.

dlymn I am living in Brisbane , so Moreton Bay will be my playground. With plans to move/sail north and possibly go right around Australia.

Sailing in the River and Bay and also behind the Reef might be fine usually, but I reckon to sail the Bight, West coast of Australia(lee shore all the way)Bass Strait and the East coast requires significant skill and a very, very reliable boat.

You will probably be sailing many miles offshore and in some regions that even the most seasoned sailor approaches with caution. Do not imagine that having an epirb will save you; the water in some of these places is so cold that rescue must happen in minutes.

I know that there are plenty of stories out there of sailors making the most amazing journeys in tiny boats, but these stories are more than compensated for by the many disasters caused by imagining that any boat can go anywhere. I would save like fury and buy something in the 45 foot range and less than 10 years old. This will only improve the likelihood of completing a circumnavigation and not only being alive but also want to keep on sailing.

A circumnavigation of Australia is truly a heroic feat. It is a wonderful aspiration, but do not underestimate the level of skill, personal endurance and boat reliability that is required to achieve this.

[CrazyStoney]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Manitou's are a very small 31 footer being a walk over centre cockpit with a canoe stern. They do have a nice rear deck area, however. There was a manitou newsgroup around many years ago, a google search might find the archive postings if it isn't active still. They're reputed to be a reasonable sea going boat from my recollection.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Thanks Reefmagnet, I have sailed before on a Manitou ( Moreton Bay ) and really enjoyed it. Also I know for a fact that I can fit in the double berth/bunk? in the aft cabin.

[CrazyStoney]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Stoney, in your place I'd be asking for more detail about the hull construction. My own suspicion is that it hasn't got cement in the hull at all, but the ferrolite or a similar compound that Snow Petrel mentioned. I've never heard of using a normal fibreglass laminate over a steel matrix, but there were several techniques involving steel/polymer composites. The fact that it was built by a University makes me doubt that it was done with incompatible materials.

I would also be asking for some description of the hull shape and sail area. With that info, some idea of how she would sail becomes possible... something that I would consider very important. Should those numbers indicate poor sailing performance, then more info about engine and tankage becomes important. Lots of factors, not much nfo at present!

Meanwhile, keep looking with an open mind...

Jim

Thankyou Jim,
Very wise advice. Hence the reason I have come to this forum, to learn from the learned who are willing to advise and assist.

[CrazyStoney]

Originally Posted by dlymn

Sailing in the River and Bay and also behind the Reef might be fine usually, but I reckon to sail the Bight, West coast of Australia(lee shore all the way)Bass Strait and the East coast requires significant skill and a very, very reliable boat.

You will probably be sailing many miles offshore and in some regions that even the most seasoned sailor approaches with caution. Do not imagine that having an epirb will save you; the water in some of these places is so cold that rescue must happen in minutes.

I know that there are plenty of stories out there of sailors making the most amazing journeys in tiny boats, but these stories are more than compensated for by the many disasters caused by imagining that any boat can go anywhere. I would save like fury and buy something in the 45 foot range and less than 10 years old. This will only improve the likelihood of completing a circumnavigation and not only being alive but also want to keep on sailing.

A circumnavigation of Australia is truly a heroic feat. It is a wonderful aspiration, but do not underestimate the level of skill, personal endurance and boat reliability that is required to achieve this.

Thanks dlymn, I understand what you are saying very clearly. I have read almost every book on circumnavigating Australia there is to read over the years. It has been a dream of mine all of my life, and I am not ready at all to do it today. That's why I am trying just to get into the sailing lifestyle with my small budget. Baby steps, but with time who knows.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by CrazyStoney

Thanks dlymn, I understand what you are saying very clearly. I have read almost every book on circumnavigating Australia there is to read over the years. It has been a dream of mine all of my life, and I am not ready at all to do it today. That's why I am trying just to get into the sailing lifestyle with my small budget. Baby steps, but with time who knows.

I understand the desire to get into the sailing lifestyle, but I feel this may not be the best approach.

Regardless of whether the boat is going to fall apart or not, it may not be something really capable of a round Oz journey. It MAY be capable, but being a one-off with unknown sea manners makes it a risk, and one that is statistically unlikely to succeed.

If you want to get into sailing now why not pick up one of the very many well known and trusted trailer sailors on the market, (AU$15K will buy you an incredibly good boat. Hey, even half that will get something pretty darn good too.) secure in the knowledge that they work well and that when the time comes to upgrade to something bigger they will be easy to sell? It took me less than a week to sell our Austral when we were ready for a bigger boat because it was a well known and trusted make and model.

By contrast, trying to sell a one-off boat like this will probably be very, very difficult and will most likely take years, and may simply not be possible.

If you KNEW this boat was up to the trip you dream of, then it would be a totally different story, but I cannot see how you could possibly prove its capability beforehand.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Jim Cate]

^^^^^^

Stoney, I'd have to agree with Matt's advice here. Buying an odd-ball one-off is always a bit risky, but much more so w hen the buyer is not very knowledgeable. Relying upon internet advice to evaluate the boat is not a reliable route... in fact, even a good surveyor would have a hard time evaluating (fiscally) such a vessel, and predicting her sailing characteristics even harder.

Jim

[RaymondR]

I have an old sailing mate who, a couple of decades ago, decided he wanted to buy his own boat and sail around the world. In the pen beside mine was a well equipped, steel, 34' Boro Princess which the owner wanted to sell so that he could buy a house with his partner. My friend crawled over the boat, ran the engine, hauled it out of the water and went over it with an ultrasonic thickness tester, then bought the boat. A couple of years later he set sail across the Indian Ocean, went around southern Africa, up and over the Atlantic to the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal and across the Pacific back to Sydney where he sold the boat. The trip took about 6 years, the boat got washed up into the mangroves by a hurricane in the Caribbean, the only surviving vessel, and numerous other adventure were had including a couple of love affairs.


If you start sailing around Australia anti clockwise, carefully watching the weather etc, by the time you get to the difficult bit, let's say North West Cape to Saint Vincent's Gulf, you will be a seasoned coastal cruiser and it will be a piece of cake.


The two important things are hull integrity and drive system reliability, the rest of it's just floss.

[CrazyStoney]

Originally Posted by GILow

I understand the desire to get into the sailing lifestyle, but I feel this may not be the best approach.

Regardless of whether the boat is going to fall apart or not, it may not be something really capable of a round Oz journey. It MAY be capable, but being a one-off with unknown sea manners makes it a risk, and one that is statistically unlikely to succeed.

If you want to get into sailing now why not pick up one of the very many well known and trusted trailer sailors on the market, (AU$15K will buy you an incredibly good boat. Hey, even half that will get something pretty darn good too.) secure in the knowledge that they work well and that when the time comes to upgrade to something bigger they will be easy to sell? It took me less than a week to sell our Austral when we were ready for a bigger boat because it was a well known and trusted make and model.

By contrast, trying to sell a one-off boat like this will probably be very, very difficult and will most likely take years, and may simply not be possible.

If you KNEW this boat was up to the trip you dream of, then it would be a totally different story, but I cannot see how you could possibly prove its capability beforehand.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

G'day Matt, what you say makes a lot of sense thankyou, but, I am definitely looking for a live aboard boat. Also the original boat that I posted was/is just a boat that I came across at the right price range. It doesn't mean I am going to rush out and blindly buy it. That is why I was asking for opinions.

[CrazyStoney]

Originally Posted by GILow

I understand the desire to get into the sailing lifestyle, but I feel this may not be the best approach.

Regardless of whether the boat is going to fall apart or not, it may not be something really capable of a round Oz journey. It MAY be capable, but being a one-off with unknown sea manners makes it a risk, and one that is statistically unlikely to succeed.

If you want to get into sailing now why not pick up one of the very many well known and trusted trailer sailors on the market, (AU$15K will buy you an incredibly good boat. Hey, even half that will get something pretty darn good too.) secure in the knowledge that they work well and that when the time comes to upgrade to something bigger they will be easy to sell? It took me less than a week to sell our Austral when we were ready for a bigger boat because it was a well known and trusted make and model.

By contrast, trying to sell a one-off boat like this will probably be very, very difficult and will most likely take years, and may simply not be possible.

If you KNEW this boat was up to the trip you dream of, then it would be a totally different story, but I cannot see how you could possibly prove its capability beforehand.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^^^

Stoney, I'd have to agree with Matt's advice here. Buying an odd-ball one-off is always a bit risky, but much more so w hen the buyer is not very knowledgeable. Relying upon internet advice to evaluate the boat is not a reliable route... in fact, even a good surveyor would have a hard time evaluating (fiscally) such a vessel, and predicting her sailing characteristics even harder.

Jim

G'day Jim, thankyou once again for your wise advice. I just was wanting yay or nay opinions on the boats I am looking for at my price range. Unfortunately I have no sailing friends to bounce ideas off. As for around Australia, perhaps I was getting a little too ambitious for my capabilities. Just a good starter to live aboard and punt around and get in the know.