Thinking of buying a Flicka 20

[Indefatiguable]

did my "most recent" post not get posted? oh man, that took like 45 minutes to type up... hang on a sec

there it is, thankfully. Nevermind

[Pete7]

I agree with Paul, too small IMHO.

There is a couple of things I really want, one is a separate heads compartment and another is the ability to stand up to put my trousers on each morning, otherwise you are just camping which whilst fun in your twenties later in life kind of nice to have a few comforts.

If you plan on offshore sailing then the longer waterline of a 27 - 30ft yacht will be noticeably faster with shorter passage times. The ability to carry stuff like food and water will be substantially greater too.

At 31 ft we find size is easily manageable solo and running costs still acceptable for big ticket items.

[JPA Cate]

I'm wondering if there's adequate headroom for you on the Flicka.
" " " " " berth room for you " " " .

Lack of headroom for tallish people gets to be a big issue for some. Also, if your feet are competing for room at the pointy end of the V berth. And, you also need sitting room.

I think a small "personal" RO unit, hand operated, would allow you two to get by, day by day, if your tankage ran out. When you're looking at these little boats, do see if they are equipped with salt water to the galley, because at sea, you can save heaps of fresh water by using salt water in its place. Obviously, on the Great Lakes, there will be holding tank issues.

As to other possible trailerable boats, there are the NorSea 27s. I've seen one on a trailer. But you need to understand that trailering them is not easy on sailboats, and there is a lot written about what the trailer should be to adequately support the hull. Usuallly, with cranes, you'll pay his costs coming to you and returning whence he came, and the hourly rates for attaching the slings, hoisting you, and placing you in the water. I expect it is ultimately more expensive than towing the trailer and launching yourself. It is not, imho, a satisfactory way to cross oceans, but could allow you to do things like driving it to Mexico and sailing it there. You could also do the Great Loop. So there are things to do in a max 4 knot boat.

Ann

[Indefatiguable]

Well, as pertaining to headroom, I have never owned a "living situation" that I've been able to stand up straight in - the closest is when I stand under the emergency escape roof hatches - while they're open - in our bus, something I do regularly In fact, I've had a small scarrish scab on the very topmost part of my head since I first got the thing and it still had it's perforated steel ceiling. I suspect I'll have it forever at this point unfortunately.

As far as berth room, that's another excellent point - one I hadn't considered prior. I remember reading somewhere the depth (length? … releveant dimension of the V berth but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I do know that the berth amidships is 6' 4" on the models without the enclosed head. I'm going to have to again do further research after your responses, thank you


On that note, what is an "RO unit"? I'm assuming we're talking water makers here by context. Please do enlighten, otherwise that's 3 search queries from you alone in regards to salt water use in the galley, if not equipped, would there be any problems with simply filling a small bucket on a line to use for grey water applications?


as pertaining to the capacity of foodstuffs and it's effect on range, it may be helpful to note that my wife and I have previously gone very long periods of time (beyond 90 days) on a ration of either 2 packages ramen or, when water is a concern, 1 medium can of Dinty Moore per day per belly without too much discomfort - usually supplemented with foraging (or in this case, fishing I guess

[Jim Cate]

Just wondering... have you ever been aboard a Flicka?

Before getting too invested in this particular dream, I'd strongly suggest doing that and getting a first hand idea about available room. Remember, being on a boat at sea or at anchor is a LOT different than being in a land RV where you can simply step out the door and be "somewhere else". This, coupled with a lack of standing headroom and sleeping length could be a real drag for you that you haven't really considered.

Honestly, I'd suggest looking at slightly larger vessels, even if it meant loosing the trailerability. Your price range suggests that there are a lot of ~30 footers available to you, and their usefulness as liveaboard cruisers is hugely enhanced. The oft quoted increments of upkeep relative to LOA are oft exaggerated, though not absent.

A case in point: many years ago, Ann and I did our first offshore passage, SF to Hawaii and return and in our Yankee 30 (a good boat available for less that your budget). In Hawaii we met a chap on a sister Y-30 and fell into discussion about our boats. He mentioned that he had previously had a Flicka, and had done the Hawaii-Tahiti round trip in it, and in his Y-30 as well. He was pretty firm in the conviction that he wouldn't go back to the Flicka! Said that the difference was huge. One man's opinion, and you know what that is worth!

Anyhow, I wish you well in your adventure... it's a great life!

Jim

[Indefatiguable]

regarding the wear and fatigue associated with trailering, that is a point I had not yet considered as well.

I would assume, and as always please do correct me here, that this is due to A) vibrations going down the road - I've experienced that particular phenomenon with production campers and RV's quite significantly, in fact it's the reason I stay the heck away from them and B) the weight of the boat being supported by the trailers struts instead of it's own buoyancy - focusing increased forces on reduced areas. … crap that makes total sense and really changes my view on exactly how much i'd be trailering it. Thanks for pointing that out, I should've caught both of those.

[Indefatiguable]

you're correct, I have not yet been aboard one. I'm heading down to flordia next month for a bit and was intending on scheduling a day sail with one of the many (some) flickas for sale down there. I'm also very keenly aware of the difference in being able to "step outside" in an RV vs on a boat, outside of my long past distance races (almost a week with 8 folks on a j/92 is pretty cramped) the nearest comparison I can draw is in the winter where I "could" step outside, I just don't for as long as the wood locker lasts me - about 10 days usually.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Indefatiguable

Addendum(s) to my most recent post:

Can anyone shed some light as to the specific relative increase in incurred expenses and maintenance between a flicka and a slightly larger pocket blue water cruiser? Criteria for useful comparison would primarily involve reasonably similar purchase price for the purposes of this question...

I'd honestly say the difference in cost between a 20' Flicka, and any other trailerable boat 25' or less, is about 0%.

Anchors, sails, slips, tow-vehicles, maintenance, replacement parts - all close to 0%.

Really.


But - the more stores you can carry, the more money you can save, and the longer you can go.

[Indefatiguable]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

I'd honestly say the difference in cost between a 20" Flicka, and any other trailerable boat 25' or less, is about 0%.

Anchors, sails, slips, tow-vehicles, maintenance, replacement parts - all close to 0%.

Really.

… that also really changes things, can anyone vaguely corroborate that? No offense intended, i'm certain you'd know over me, that's just a HUGE revelation in my decision making process (the 2nd of such magnitude in a few minutes no less!)

[john61ct]

And it may be tedious but do read through my "trailerable bluewater" thread linked to above.

Lots and lots of boats will do the job better than Flicka, storage really is not a luxury.

Nor is a few more cubic feet of living space, especially headroom.

And most are cheaper to buy, and no more expensive to maintain.

[Hardhead]

If you don't necessarily need a trailerable option, I'd go for something about 30 feet or less. You also will not need a tow vehicle. I don't believe there is a real practical difference in costs between about 26 and 30 ft - but there is a huge difference in the quantity of stores and water you can carry. Any larger, costs can go significantly up.

That directly translates into costs saved. And a lot more personal interest stuff, i.e. hobby stuff & fun stuff (like clothing changes) you can bring along with you.

[Indefatiguable]

Well folks,

I'm really glad I joined up on this forum, I don't know how the heck I missed the "it'll rattle itself apart on the trailer" thing - I should've caught that. Add in the notion of very similar overhead - and I'm officially talked out of a flicka.


So is my wife.

Folks, thank you once again for your advice and insight - invaluable to say the … no it's worth 25 thousand dollars worth of not bought flicka. yeah that's what it's worth on the head

I'm going to start a new thread of for sale ad's i'd consider to submit for opinion, so as not to meander too far off topic. I will absolutely be reading, in depth, your previously linked thread on the topic as well John.

Thank you all very very much. My head scab also says thanks.

[Hardhead]

One thing to bear in mind - that is for every foot larger - there is also increase in width and volume, and carrying ability, usually. From a pure cruising costs standpoint - I'd be willing to bet a 30 foot sailboat is about the absolute sweet spot.

There are a million opinions on this, based on what you need out of life. For me, right now, I like a good boat on a trailer the best. Once I have the freedom to be gone 2 months at a time, it's probably something larger.

Good luck - you certainly seem like a smart and contemplative person, and I'm sure anything you do is the right move for you.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

I'd honestly say the difference in cost between a 20' Flicka, and any other trailerable boat 25' or less, is about 0%.

Anchors, sails, slips, tow-vehicles, maintenance, replacement parts - all close to 0%.

Really.


But - the more stores you can carry, the more money you can save, and the longer you can go.

100% agree! Maintenance cost are more a function of weight, build quality, and systems than overall length (to a point). The sails, rigging, trailer, tires, fuel will be the same on a 25' 6000# vs 20' 6000#. Really, a few additional ounces of bottom paint and a few bucks a year for storage... maybe a $100 more a year.

And remember, the maintenance tools that you bring along with your added length will more than cover the extra bottom paint purchased.


Matt

[JPA Cate]

@Indefatiguable,

A long time ago, there was a thread here called something like "What size boat would you choose to singlehand round the world?" (Use the CF Custom Google search.) I, who have only about 35 40 yrs. as a cruising sailor, but am a short, old woman, now, played the game, and chose 30 ft, and I think the 30-34 foot range is a good compromise for a long term cruiser. All boats are compromises. But once you get out there, the world's your oyster, a real gift, to be treasured.

And, with trailering, it's not only the vibration, it's the wind...60 mph is like a hurricane.

Ann