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Old 17-10-2021, 10:07   #16
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

certainly an IP35 or IP37 are a good choice .. but many of these are 30 years old and will need a lot of work. also it would be a good idea for you to know your capabilities with a 35 or 40 foot boat. can you and your mate handle it? or will you just park your boat and live on it
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Old 17-10-2021, 10:54   #17
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Somanyboats states it nicely. To paraphrase, "do your homework" :-)

Spending a few hours, or a few days, "chasing boats", starting here:

https://sailboatdata.com/

will enable you to develop a shortlist. Once you have that, your focus needs to shift.

SailboatData will show you the physical attributes, just like the photos on a dating site, but as you know, that isn't everything. Personality, in the end, will count for more, and every boat (not every MAKE of boat, but every INDIVIDUAL boat) has its own personality. In fact, in former days there was a firm belief - I hold it still - that ships have souls. Some are pussycats, some are snarling tigers.

Some observations on your list of desiderata:

-Fin w/ skeg hung rudder or full keel

What else is there? Or do you mean "no centre-boarders"? Or "no bilge-keelers"? If so why do you count those two types out?


-35-42 ft (preferably around 37-40 ft)

SailboatData will guide you. YachtWorld is a useful reference, but that publication's purpose is to make money for its publishers - not to give novice sailors guidance. Doing that is simply a means to making money, and therefore not to be taken without whopping dollops of salt.

-head with separate shower

IMO a waste of expensive space better used for other things such as stowage of essential gear and, if you are thinking of passage-making [and who isn't, till reality rears its ugly head :-)?], for provisions.

At sea you cannot really use a shower anyway, and a "Liverpool wash" is far more efficacious and sparing or that scarcest of resource: water! On the hook go for a swim. Clean the residual a salt off you bod with a sponge and a minimum of fresh water. In marinas, go use the wash-house. All marinas have them.

Loose water of any kind below decks is to be eschewed!


-aft cabin that can preferably sleep 2

Why? How old are you :-)? How "keen" are you :-)? No, don't answer that :-)!

-American made (many beautiful boats in EU I wish I could get)

Hm.. Why can't you get 'em? Does your patriotism stretch so far that you will give a pass to a superior "furren" boat just because it IS "furren"? Many superior boats are built in Europe and elsewhere and many of them make their way to American shores.

-a galley large enough to hold decent food stores and large water tankage

See above. The galley is NOT where you keep provisions and NOT where you keep your potable water! A galley should be SMALL enuff, if you are thinking of passage making, that "cookie" can brace her/himself as the boat rolls and pitches. The pots on the stove are never filled more that 1/2 full, they are lidded when possible, and they are ALWAYS held in place on the burners by "fiddle clamps" when you are underway! A "fiddle" is the "rail" surrounding the stove top. The clamps are held to the fiddles with substantial thumb screws.

-preferably no teak decks

SailboatData will be your guide.

-blue water capable that sails well

Nearly EVERY boat you will find listed in SailboatData and discussed in "the glossies" is "blue water capable" and all of them sail ADEQUATELY. The question is rarely "is the boat blue water capable?" The question is almost always "Is the SKIPPER "blue water capable?". Adequate boat handling I could teach you in a weekend. SKIPPERING takes a lifetime to learn :-)!

-no bolt on keel or blade rudder

Whyever not? Huge numbers of boats have "bolt on"s. That "bolt ons" qua "bolt ons" are inferior in any respect doesn't stand up to engineering scrutiny. Whether that part of the interior structure of the hull that bears the keel is adequate is an entirely different question. If it is not, you should suspect other parts of the particular boat's design

-$100k or less

No problem. Two years ago a Fast Passage 39 just in from a circumnavigation and ready to go again the day tomorrow sold in our marina for Can$65K!

All the best to you :-)

TrentePieds
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Old 17-10-2021, 10:57   #18
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Let's join search forces as I am also looking. I'm spending time on popyachts.com because it's helping me understand the nuances of various boats and the valuation of vessels, which is critical. They also have a pull down menu that includes antique boats and I find myself salivating over those at length. I'm thinking motor sail this time around, having previously owned a low shoal Glander in Florida - now that I'm in California, the game's changed a bit.
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Old 17-10-2021, 11:32   #19
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgifford View Post
Hello everyone. I’ve been reading the forum for many years but I just made an account and this is my first post.

In the next year or so I will be purchasing a sailboat and cruising off into the ocean blue. I was hoping some more experienced sailors than myself could suggest some boats brands that fit my criteria. I know a boat with all the things I want for the given length would be a unicorn boat but I would to tick as many boxes as possible. My criteria I’m hoping to achieve are.
-Fin w/ skeg hung rudder or full keel
-35-42 ft (preferably around 37-40 ft)
-head with separate shower
-aft cabin that can preferably sleep 2
-American made (many beautiful boats in EU I wish I could get)
-a galley large enough to hold decent food stores and large water tankage
-preferably no teak decks
-blue water capable that sails well
-no bolt on keel or blade rudder
-$100k or less

I appreciate any and all comments and choices from anybody. Thank you very much everyone!
As you will be buying used your choice will be among the boats available and some boat brands are more popular in a given area and not normally available in others. Buying outside your immediate area raises the overall cost.

As already mentioned you should be looking at as many boats as you can. Seeing what is being offered and current pricing will lead you to the boat of your choice. Using the Internet can't replace actually viewing boats; even if it doesn't qualify there may be features you like that you had not previously thought of. However, Internet sites such as saildata.com and Sail Calculator Pro will help you narrow the field to your desires. Compare competing boat ratios so that you know what you are buying in performance and capability.

No boat is perfect and there are always tradeoffs. Concentrate on the basics: hull, rudder, rigging, sails, tankage, engine, and owner maintenance...everything else is negotiable. If you start out with a boat with good bones your on your way to positive ownership.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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Old 18-10-2021, 03:37   #20
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgifford View Post
Hello everyone. I’ve been reading the forum for many years but I just made an account and this is my first post.

In the next year or so I will be purchasing a sailboat and cruising off into the ocean blue. I was hoping some more experienced sailors than myself could suggest some boats brands that fit my criteria. I know a boat with all the things I want for the given length would be a unicorn boat but I would to tick as many boxes as possible. My criteria I’m hoping to achieve are.
-Fin w/ skeg hung rudder or full keel
-35-42 ft (preferably around 37-40 ft)
-head with separate shower
-aft cabin that can preferably sleep 2
-American made (many beautiful boats in EU I wish I could get)
-a galley large enough to hold decent food stores and large water tankage
-preferably no teak decks
-blue water capable that sails well
-no bolt on keel or blade rudder
-$100k or less

I appreciate any and all comments and choices from anybody. Thank you very much everyone!
Hi Arthur. Gotta be an Island Packet 38. It is a mistake to think of the long keel as a "trade off" it is what makes the boat so awesome. Some people say they are hard to maneuver in marinas, but that is simply because they are using the techniques better suited to fin and spade boats. I bring mine in solo, just about anywhere in just about any condition. Just make sure you find one that has had the chain plates done as this will cost you a lot to put right (it was the only design fault). You can have a look at mine on Sailing Calypso | Goal-free sailing.

Good luck buddy and let me know if I can help in any way.
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Old 18-10-2021, 04:36   #21
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marutji View Post
Some people say they are hard to maneuver in marinas, but that is simply because they are using the techniques better suited to fin and spade boats.
You raise a very good point here. A lot of inconveniences can be resolved with a little effort to learn the appropriate techniques and knowing the limits of the boat.
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:17   #22
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
Welcome to the forum.
I'm not nearly as experienced as many on here so I won't offer any advice on brands or models.
What I would recommend is to get on as many boats, and specifically as many varieties of boats as possible. Go sailing, sit aboard at the dock or anchor, racing, cruising, get aboard any way you can. Build your own knowledge base and experience so you can pick what boat works for you, not what others think works for you
Good luck and have fun with it. Discovery is an exciting part of the process


Yes I agree and will do that! Thank you for the response!
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:19   #23
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCoolDave View Post
It's going to be tough to get everything you want. You are basically limiting yourself to 30+yr old boats with an encapsulated keel. You'll need around 40ft to get a reasonable aft berth. I've got a few ideas though.

Bristol 41.1 would be my top choice but might max your budget. Encapsulated keel with a centerboard.

Pearson 424 has everything you asked for but they are almost all ketch rigged. The 422 is a center cockpit sloop but they only made like 30.

Caliber 38/40 solid cruising boat with everything you asked for.

Passport 40, made in Asia and the aft cabin would be on the small side.


I have several friends with Island Packet 38s, is a full keel but very spacious for a 38fter. They have a cult following and tend to be very well maintained. My friends love their boats and accept the tradeoffs of the full keel.


Yes those all look to be great boats. I like the Bristol. Calibers are nice as well. The IP 38 is the boat I want but they are at my max budget and if I got one I would have absolutely no money left for upgrades or maintenance.
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:24   #24
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid59 View Post
I am living in a 1972 Islander 36, named Intrepid. Its previous owner, Zak Sunderland used it in 2009 to sail around the world. I am currently in the Caribbean after my 4 year sail around the world. 2 circumnavigations, no issues, in a 50 year old sailboat.


Yes they look like great boats. I didn’t know about that brand. They look a little IOR driven but that’s not a big deal. They are definitely being added to the list is potential options. Thank you.
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:28   #25
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pole View Post
I own (and love) a Dix38 built of finest steel. They come with an aft cockpit and various layouts, and there is also a pilothouse version.

My boat has a largish aft cabin, and a huge foc'sl where my wife and I sleep. Where the other aft cabin would be is a storage cabin that takes all sails, tools, spares, Genset and all the stuff that accumulates, so we end up with an uncluttered boat. I really like the layout.

Dudley Dix is a South African designer and now lives in Florida, as far as I know, so there's an American connection if its that important.

Here's the thing: at 38 foot all the forces are very manageable. The difference between a 38 and a 40 is noticeable and don't get me going on price as size increases. I think it's a function of the square of the length...

Anyway, here's one that was owned by my mate Barry. It's sold now but this well-laid-out presentation gives you a good idea. https://forbesyachts.com/buy-yachts/...ix-38-for-sale

Lastly, you are not asking for the unattainable at your budget. Lots of boats out there. Come to SA, buy one here, and start off with the milk run to the Caribbean with a wind from aft and the weather getting warmer every day.


Ah yes steel boats. I honestly love the idea of having a steel boat, but the ones I’ve looked at seem to have shoddy construction or interior. Also i hear horror stories of rust maintenance and their sailing ability on anything less than 45 ft. But I wish I could find a nice steel sailboat. They are very rare.
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:39   #26
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Somanyboats states it nicely. To paraphrase, "do your homework" :-)

Spending a few hours, or a few days, "chasing boats", starting here:

https://sailboatdata.com/

will enable you to develop a shortlist. Once you have that, your focus needs to shift.

SailboatData will show you the physical attributes, just like the photos on a dating site, but as you know, that isn't everything. Personality, in the end, will count for more, and every boat (not every MAKE of boat, but every INDIVIDUAL boat) has its own personality. In fact, in former days there was a firm belief - I hold it still - that ships have souls. Some are pussycats, some are snarling tigers.

Some observations on your list of desiderata:

-Fin w/ skeg hung rudder or full keel

What else is there? Or do you mean "no centre-boarders"? Or "no bilge-keelers"? If so why do you count those two types out?


-35-42 ft (preferably around 37-40 ft)

SailboatData will guide you. YachtWorld is a useful reference, but that publication's purpose is to make money for its publishers - not to give novice sailors guidance. Doing that is simply a means to making money, and therefore not to be taken without whopping dollops of salt.

-head with separate shower

IMO a waste of expensive space better used for other things such as stowage of essential gear and, if you are thinking of passage-making [and who isn't, till reality rears its ugly head :-)?], for provisions.

At sea you cannot really use a shower anyway, and a "Liverpool wash" is far more efficacious and sparing or that scarcest of resource: water! On the hook go for a swim. Clean the residual a salt off you bod with a sponge and a minimum of fresh water. In marinas, go use the wash-house. All marinas have them.

Loose water of any kind below decks is to be eschewed!


-aft cabin that can preferably sleep 2

Why? How old are you :-)? How "keen" are you :-)? No, don't answer that :-)!

-American made (many beautiful boats in EU I wish I could get)

Hm.. Why can't you get 'em? Does your patriotism stretch so far that you will give a pass to a superior "furren" boat just because it IS "furren"? Many superior boats are built in Europe and elsewhere and many of them make their way to American shores.

-a galley large enough to hold decent food stores and large water tankage

See above. The galley is NOT where you keep provisions and NOT where you keep your potable water! A galley should be SMALL enuff, if you are thinking of passage making, that "cookie" can brace her/himself as the boat rolls and pitches. The pots on the stove are never filled more that 1/2 full, they are lidded when possible, and they are ALWAYS held in place on the burners by "fiddle clamps" when you are underway! A "fiddle" is the "rail" surrounding the stove top. The clamps are held to the fiddles with substantial thumb screws.

-preferably no teak decks

SailboatData will be your guide.

-blue water capable that sails well

Nearly EVERY boat you will find listed in SailboatData and discussed in "the glossies" is "blue water capable" and all of them sail ADEQUATELY. The question is rarely "is the boat blue water capable?" The question is almost always "Is the SKIPPER "blue water capable?". Adequate boat handling I could teach you in a weekend. SKIPPERING takes a lifetime to learn :-)!

-no bolt on keel or blade rudder

Whyever not? Huge numbers of boats have "bolt on"s. That "bolt ons" qua "bolt ons" are inferior in any respect doesn't stand up to engineering scrutiny. Whether that part of the interior structure of the hull that bears the keel is adequate is an entirely different question. If it is not, you should suspect other parts of the particular boat's design

-$100k or less

No problem. Two years ago a Fast Passage 39 just in from a circumnavigation and ready to go again the day tomorrow sold in our marina for Can$65K!

All the best to you :-)

TrentePieds


Hello, thanks for the response! It was very insightful.
I have been educating myself on the different designs out there.
Honestly, most of the “comfort” and safety things such as a strong hull, skeg rudder, head w/ separate shower , large galley and aft cabin are basically to make my GF happy and willing to go haha.
And I agree, there are many many beautiful boats from EU I want but are super rare here in the states (hallberg rassy, najad etc). It’s not about “patriotism”, it’s about availability.
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Old 18-10-2021, 07:46   #27
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marutji View Post
Hi Arthur. Gotta be an Island Packet 38. It is a mistake to think of the long keel as a "trade off" it is what makes the boat so awesome. Some people say they are hard to maneuver in marinas, but that is simply because they are using the techniques better suited to fin and spade boats. I bring mine in solo, just about anywhere in just about any condition. Just make sure you find one that has had the chain plates done as this will cost you a lot to put right (it was the only design fault). You can have a look at mine on Sailing Calypso | Goal-free sailing.



Good luck buddy and let me know if I can help in any way.


Hey man thanks for the response. And what a beautiful boat she is! I agree the IP 38 is my all time favorite! If I had just a bit more money it would be hands down the boat I would get. Sadly you can’t really find one for less then 100k and if you do they usually need work. I think the IP 37 would be a good compromise but I still want to do a little research to see if I can find something similar for a cheaper price.
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Old 24-10-2021, 05:40   #28
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleWing77 View Post
+1

I was thinking the same thing, Dave. Those Bill Lapworth boats were all designed specifically for cruising, so were well thought out.

Great suggestion! Now about finding one....

Fair winds,
LittleWing77
Just a little late clarification, Arthur.

I combined Calibres and Cals in my thoughts when I responded above.

Cals are the Bill Lapworth cruising designs - built on West Coast, however, so less common on the East Coast, but just saw a Cal 31 in the Providence, Rhode Island's Craigslist this morning, so some will still be found on the East Coast.

Cal 31
providence.craigslist.org/boa/d/warwick-cal-31-sailboat-1980/7390296304.html

Calibres are also cruising boats (chriskilmer on this Forum acquired one in March, 2021). Don't know who built them, but I understand the builder(s) are still knocking about in Florida somewhere and available for consults.

Sorry for my confusion,
LittleWing77
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Old 24-10-2021, 09:24   #29
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.
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Old 24-10-2021, 10:24   #30
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Re: The perfect 35-40ft sailboat

May I ask a simple question. Is your requirements list based on Something you read, or Something you've done?

Full keel boats have certain advantages like many have said,and with experience you will be able to move that boat around a marina like a pro. Until then you Won't. Heck it's VERYdifficult to back one into a med mooring or to turn in a narrow lane in a big marina. A fun keel on the other hand can turn on a dime, and with little experience can be backed in while Mr classic boat is still bouncing off other boats. Sure it can be done, but how many years did that learning curve take?
Galley should be compact because the person down there while you a steering the boat does not want to fly around. Tied to a dock it is a completely different set of needs.
Where are you gonna sail? Are you going to anchor out? Why don't you have energy consumption and production requirements in your list? So you want to anchor out because after buying said boat you'll not have much money left. We'll what ground tackle are you looking for and is a shallow draft important to you?

You don't need an answer yet on which boat. You need more questions.
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