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Old 21-05-2020, 04:15   #46
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

i'd still rather debate the advantages of quadriremes versus a trireme

be a whole lot more productive than going over this sh1t again...

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Old 21-05-2020, 05:14   #47
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but, to my eye at least, all of these plastic, insect-like multihulls (with Wharram's being an exception) as well as most of the modern monohull floating condos are unforgivably butt ugly.
And all else aside, life is too short to sail an ugly boat.
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Old 21-05-2020, 15:22   #48
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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Originally Posted by Greg K View Post
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but, to my eye at least, all of these plastic, insect-like multihulls (with Wharram's being an exception) as well as most of the modern monohull floating condos are unforgivably butt ugly.
And all else aside, life is too short to sail an ugly boat.
you make a good point. when choosing a boat i'm always very conscious that a pretty boat (very hard to define, but you know it when you see it) will nearly always sail well...as well as being a joy to the eye

some well known saying about this eludes me at the moment...

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Old 21-05-2020, 15:25   #49
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
you make a good point. when choosing a boat i'm always very conscious that a pretty boat (very hard to define, but you know it when you see it) will nearly always sail well...as well as being a joy to the eye



some well known saying about this eludes me at the moment...



cheers,


I find certain multis and monos gorgeous, and I also find certain monos and multis butt ugly. But everyone’s taste isn’t the same, thank god!
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Old 21-05-2020, 15:29   #50
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

I actually thought of this thread today as we had a great light air sail in clear waters.
We had 6-8 kts of wind on a closeish reach making 6-8 kts of boatspeed, really happy with our choice of boat.
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Old 21-05-2020, 15:34   #51
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

^^^^^
If you choose a boat that does well in light airs, those days of light air sails, on the wind, are just some of the nicest sailing you'll ever have!
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Old 21-05-2020, 17:18   #52
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

I don't have too much experience in sailing, just as an observer.
I think it depends on the goals. Some people want that pure "adventure" and there's no doubts mono is great. Others have families, kids to do their homework and do not catch their papers all over the boat, prefer more slow cruising lifestyle like ppl with rvs.
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Old 21-05-2020, 17:56   #53
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

We have had 11 sailing boats ( yes I am old) with four of them multihulls. Our first trip around the world with our 3 kids was in moderate displacement 51’ monohull. It was a great boat for the trip. Now we are half way through a second trip around the world on a 45’ multihull and realise how hard the travel was on us before compared to now. I think it would be a futile argument with my wife to get her back on a monohull. I certainly agree you have to keep the boat light and agile. Only once have I wanted my old mono back and that was during a rough trip down to Tasmania . It wasn’t that windy about 40 knots but the seas in Bass strait were ,steep with no backs,and came both bow on and beam on smashing us. The old mono would have cleaved and rolled in these seas. The kicker is we crossed in 30 hours while the first of the monos that left with us took 40 hours. My vote in this election is for a multi!
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Old 22-05-2020, 21:17   #54
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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Originally Posted by ELC View Post
Ok, hoping it stays polite. Some folks asked to have the discussion so here goes with my two bits.

30 years of living aboard, sailing some cruising, building, repairing, rebuilding, owned a boatyard for a while and was a surveyor. Learned to sail on an early Piver tri. Have sailed tris, cats, monos of heavy to light displacement and even ran a 114 foot motor yacht.

I like them all but can only use one and right now the choice is a moderate to heavy displacement mono. My reasons are based on our needs and experience. Now, others may make very different choices based on different needs.

So here goes. My wife and I are part of a nonprofit that will be working around more remote stretches of the South Pacific. Taking 4 person teams and also helping with projects requiring my skills and tools. I carry a lot of tools. They weigh a lot. But that's what we need.

We have a 46 foot ketch that made the final cut. Now it's loaded but not overloaded and that's important. Moderate to heavy displacement boats can handle more weight safely for their size than a multi. Hard truth but there it is.

Yes, they are slower and yes they heel but I'm good with that. If you pick a good one they will structurally take more abuse than a multi.

If you like a multi you really, really want to look at the design cruising load. That's not a recommendation it's a hard fact. When it's exceeded speed and stability drop fast and structural stresses increase.

Again, I like multis but I've seen soooooo many suffering from overloading. I've worked on structural failures on them that had one crossing, others less than a decade old (they are built on a very fine weight/strength line) and other issues.

To some they like the lack of heeling but honestly I like the slower roll motion and am very use to heeling. I knew one couple who did the switch to a Cat. One pacific crossing and the Cat was sold and back to a mono. They didn't like the faster roll and he developed neck issues. Back to a mono. Not the only case I know of!

Yes, they can handle heavy weather but I have seen problems. One very avid lifelong multihull sailor summed it up well to me. You can let a monohull mind itself hove to or ahull in extremis but for safety you need to tend a multihull all the time. Just my opinion maybe some others are braver!

I've weathered my share of hurricanes on board up to a borderline cat 5. I hope I've filled my quota on any boat but truth is multihulls can have issues in them. You have lots of windage. Lots. And to keep the weight within that magic cruising load limit many are not heavy on ground tackle. The worst example was the luxury dive trimaran a friend was anchored next to in a Cat 5. Fully crewed it went airborne, rolled over and dove in. Three crew didn't make it out. My friend survived undamaged aside from his nerves. I can relate.

Chris White, a good designer in my book, has written some good stuff on the realities of choosing multihulls. Since he's a well regarded designer I found it good reading!

Now if I could find a Cat that could carry enough weight, be sailed by two and be within budget I might go for it but right now the die is cast and we are committed!

And one day I really want to sail a proa!

Let's hear your take on it!
You forgot to mention anchors and composting heads .

Anyway, for what it's worth:

There are some very pretty monohulls
There are some very ugly multihulls
Monohulls get into more yards and marinas
Multihulls get into more bays and estuaries
Monohulls can lose their keels (very occasionally)
Multihulls are more stable upside down (hence the escape hatches in the hulls)
Monohulls can be very well fitted out for cruising with washing machines etc
Multihulls have more space, but a lot (on many) goes unused due to weight
Monohulls can have a lot of the living space down below and not a lot up top
Multihulls can have a lot of the living space up top, and also down below
Monohulls tell you when they are overpowered
Multihulls have a chart for sail area vs wind speed
Monohulls can bury their nose in big stuff or get rolled
Multihulls - well I would be nervous doing that …….,
Monohulls have only one engine to maintain
Multihulls have a second engine as a back-up
Monohulls are generally cheaper to berth and haul
Multihulls can crowd an anchorage or marina out more quickly

Each to their own, and each has advantages and disadvantages
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Old 23-05-2020, 06:51   #55
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

"...if I could find a Cat that could carry enough weight, be sailed by two and be within budget..."
& that is what it boils down to. So far no Multihull fanboy had an answer to that! (& please don't insult our intelligence now with all the examples of 40 year old cats that go for next-to-nothing!)
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Old 23-05-2020, 07:05   #56
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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Originally Posted by double u View Post
"...if I could find a Cat that could carry enough weight, be sailed by two and be within budget..."
& that is what it boils down to. So far no Multihull fanboy had an answer to that! (& please don't insult our intelligence now with all the examples of 40 year old cats that go for next-to-nothing!)


And why would that insult your intelligence?
Plenty of older cats that have dropped to really affordable prices, are seaworthy but maybe not to fast.
Many easily sailed by two and being able to carry enough weight usually breaks down to how much sh!t you have to have aboard to feel comfortable.
That 30-40 year old Prout may have quite a few ocean crossings or circumnavigations under its belt and easily meets the requirements that you claim are impossible?
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Old 23-05-2020, 11:10   #57
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

so to spell it out for the unwillig:
be so kind as to compare boats of
THE SAME AGE
THE SAME STANDARD OF UPKEEP
THE SAME EQUIPMENT
& so on...
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Old 23-05-2020, 11:14   #58
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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so to spell it out for the unwillig:
be so kind as to compare boats of
THE SAME AGE
THE SAME STANDARD OF UPKEEP
THE SAME EQUIPMENT
& so on...


What boats am I comparing?
I just made a comment that it is possible to find a catamaran for a decent price that can be easily handled by two and can carry a load as long as the owners don’t want the amenities of a shore side condo
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Old 23-05-2020, 12:31   #59
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

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What boats am I comparing?
I just made a comment that it is possible to find a catamaran for a decent price that can be easily handled by two and can carry a load as long as the owners don’t want the amenities of a shore side condo
Depends what you mean by "descent price".
If we're talking about brand new 45ft-55ft there's range between $380k to $2mln. There are some cheaper but they look like "better buy a monohull".

One of the cheapest probably would be BALI with their 4.3 if I'm not mistaken (~$380k in base). On the "luxury" side could be Privilege with their 510 and 580 and other brands.
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Old 23-05-2020, 13:00   #60
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Re: The great multi vs mono debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by double u View Post
so to spell it out for the unwillig:
be so kind as to compare boats of
THE SAME AGE
THE SAME STANDARD OF UPKEEP
THE SAME EQUIPMENT
& so on...
It's the "& so on..." where it gets messy.

If you compare a 38ft cat to a 38ft mono, the cat is going to look expensive but something like a Lagoon 380 will have the space and speed of something more like a typical 45-48ft mono and suddenly the cost difference starts to slip away if you keep everything else identical.

But even that gets complicated because the space is laid out differently.
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