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poiu · 25-05-2014, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe68

I assume you are talking about bolts screwed in to an iron keel. What about l-shaped bolts set in a lead keel, how do those get replaced?

You can send your keel off to Mars Keel. They have a bolt dig-out-and-refit service.

deluxe68 · 25-05-2014, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiu

You can send your keel off to Mars Keel. They have a bolt dig-out-and-refit service.

Thanks for the response. That sounds expensive!

Cheechako · 25-05-2014, 14:29

I have changed my mind.
For years now I have been preaching that you can go in a fin keel spade rudder production boat or in a catamaran.
I have changed my mind. All my boats were long fin with skeg rudder , semi full keels except the Catamaran. You CAN go rock climbing without experience, but should you?
The ocean is not forgiving. In the last 6 months I am aware of 3 cats that have been abandoned at sea. One brand new. Those are just the ones I know of. Also 3 (?) fin keel production boats. I don't spend my time looking for or tracking these things.
Sure you CAN go in anything, but should you?... if you have a conservative mind at all?

Do you want a boat that is robust? Forgiving? Able to forgive you of your mistakes?
Let's say you get a bargain fin keel production boat. Anyone conservative with experience on the ocean would want to inspect the rudder out of the boat, drop the keel and re bolt and rebed it. Replace the cheap plastic, brass, gate valves , ball valves or other types. These costs alone should make you think twice.
I'm not dissing bene's and the like, some people on our forum are out there cruising in them and it's working out.
I'm just saying if you want a boat that will take care of you well, you aren't a person who does things "on the edge"... then think about it.

Jbingham · 25-05-2014, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have changed my mind.
For years now I have been preaching that you can go in a fin keel spade rudder production boat or in a catamaran.
I have changed my mind. All my boats were long fin with skeg rudder , semi full keels except the Catamaran. You CAN go rock climbing without experience, but should you?
The ocean is not forgiving. In the last 6 months I am aware of 3 cats that have been abandoned at sea. One brand new. Those are just the ones I know of. Also 3 (?) fin keel production boats. I don't spend my time looking for or tracking these things.
Sure you CAN go in anything, but should you?... if you have a conservative mind at all?

Do you want a boat that is robust? Forgiving? Able to forgive you of your mistakes?
Let's say you get a bargain fin keel production boat. Anyone conservative with experience on the ocean would want to inspect the rudder out of the boat, drop the keel and re bolt and rebed it. Replace the cheap plastic, brass, gate valves , ball valves or other types. These costs alone should make you think twice.
I'm not dissing bene's and the like, some people on our forum are out there cruising in them and it's working out.
I'm just saying if you want a boat that will take care of you well, you aren't a person who does things "on the edge"... then think about it.

Great post.

**boatman61** · 25-05-2014, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbingham

Great post.

LOLOL... only coz he's leaning your way..

**neilpride** · 25-05-2014, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have changed my mind.
For years now I have been preaching that you can go in a fin keel spade rudder production boat or in a catamaran.
I have changed my mind. All my boats were long fin with skeg rudder , semi full keels except the Catamaran. You CAN go rock climbing without experience, but should you?
The ocean is not forgiving. In the last 6 months I am aware of 3 cats that have been abandoned at sea. One brand new. Those are just the ones I know of. Also 3 (?) fin keel production boats. I don't spend my time looking for or tracking these things.
Sure you CAN go in anything, but should you?... if you have a conservative mind at all?

Do you want a boat that is robust? Forgiving? Able to forgive you of your mistakes?
Let's say you get a bargain fin keel production boat. Anyone conservative with experience on the ocean would want to inspect the rudder out of the boat, drop the keel and re bolt and rebed it. Replace the cheap plastic, brass, gate valves , ball valves or other types. These costs alone should make you think twice.
I'm not dissing bene's and the like, some people on our forum are out there cruising in them and it's working out.
I'm just saying if you want a boat that will take care of you well, you aren't a person who does things "on the edge"... then think about it.

+1

.. I never change my mind about fin and spade stuff in fact is not the source of trouble, mostly bad practiques and bad construction techniques , there is hundreds of good offshore designs with properly designed and build it fin keels and spade rudders,, a fin keel its another thing in the list with a schedule maintenance , and a expensive one in most cases ...to me the difference between an inshore and a offshore boat answering the Op is dozen and dozen of details, Pan liners for structural integrity, No.... bulkheads resting in liners , Nooo.. Fin keels bolted to thin flat sections of hull or even in many production boats to the pan liner.. Noooo. fuel and water tanks secured in a funy fashion with straps No.... and the list is endless... i dont know why the boat industry is not regulated like the Aviation industry,, sure there is many people doing TW and crossing oceans with boats not designed for offshore sailing , my guess, Luck and good weather play a big role....in other words, no bolts here...

and RIP for the boys of Cheeky Rafiki, very sad event....

Jbingham · 25-05-2014, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

LOLOL... only coz he's leaning your way..

If by my way you mean good safety information yes indeed. Not manufacturer specific. Safety specific.

What's with THE LOLOL? You are actually laughing out loud or not. No one laughs out loud out loud. Just sayin'

You want everyone to just buy a boat and fly off the dock without getting feedback on safety items to be aware of? I dint even understand what your argument is?

If someone here said: "great boats. Consider doing x y and z and you greatly reduce risk" is that bad?

**boatman61** · 25-05-2014, 15:45

[QUOTE=Jbingham;1549698]
You want everyone to just buy a boat and fly off the dock without getting feedback on safety items to be aware of? I dint even understand what your argument is? QUOTE]

No argument.. just reality...
New owners buy boats and expect folk like me to deliver them.. then when the boat arrives they start thinking safety..
I find that hilarious..

Laugh
Out
Loud
Ohhh
Lordy....

Jbingham · 25-05-2014, 16:14

[QUOTE=boatman61;1549705]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbingham

You want everyone to just buy a boat and fly off the dock without getting feedback on safety items to be aware of? I dint even understand what your argument is? QUOTE]

No argument.. just reality...
New owners buy boats and expect folk like me to deliver them.. then when the boat arrives they start thinking safety..
I find that hilarious..

Laugh
Out
Loud
Ohhh
Lordy....

What type of boat do you currently own?

IdoraKeeper · 25-05-2014, 16:19

[QUOTE=boatman61;1549705]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbingham

You want everyone to just buy a boat and fly off the dock without getting feedback on safety items to be aware of? I dint even understand what your argument is? QUOTE]

No argument.. just reality...
New owners buy boats and expect folk like me to deliver them.. then when the boat arrives they start thinking safety..
I find that hilarious..

Laugh
Out
Loud
Ohhh
Lordy....

You crack me up....we are seeing too many losses...when you tire of going, or are ordered to by someone you won't refuse, you must submit to teaching. Lives are being lost. Poor decisions made. Folks are not respecting fear when caution is warranted. Of course mother nature will tear off your keel and blow out your ports if she wants to,.....but she rewards respect and diligence.

Rohan · 25-05-2014, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brob2

I suspect the twisting of the hull structure when the keel was ripped off may well have flexed the ports enough to break them, much as a car rolling and flexing can shatter its windows.

That's a good point, but then the keel must have ripped away pretty violently. I wonder if it is possible that after they experienced problems with their keel, they collided with another vessel or a whale, that ripped off the keel entirely and flexed the boat, shattering the windows. Does that sound plausible?

MarkJ · 25-05-2014, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have changed my mind.

Sure you CAN go in anything, but should you?... if you have a conservative mind at all?

Did you see the thread about "Elusive" being abandoned 350nms off Virginia? Full keeler. Ketch too.

Terra Nova · 25-05-2014, 16:40

No need to make wild guesses. With the keel gone, the boat's windows were, at times, required to do the job previously done by the inverted hull. Wave action directly on the windows would easily be sufficient for them to fail.

One thing to note is that these types of boats with huge windows are not well conceived for survival in storm conditions. Any owner of such a boat would be well advised to properly install removable storm covers before placing his crew's lives at risk.