The criteria of "blue"

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

That is true... However, as El Pinguino noted elsewhere, "Moderation in all things..."

Kinda defeats the purpose of a compass, for instance, when it can't be read while standing at the helm of this 'Globe-Girdler'...

:-)

Looks like a gunfleet pedestal.. Patented to them only I think.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

What's your ideal make and model at the moment from all that you have learnt?

I'm going to punt and say that it is "too soon to say". I only have a couple of months of study time so anything that I decided would be suspect anyway.

In reading the Pardey book they say if you do crossings you will run into really bad weather. The full keel or modified full keels seem to be a good fit for single handing out in bad weather.

The bigger problem for me is simply that I am budget constrained, so I can't simply study study study and then say "OK I'll take that one". Plus the boats often quoted as "blue water" are often "cult following" boats and folks with bigger wallets than mine out bid me so to speak.

And finally, if I did throw out a make / model all that would happen is that certain folks would just jump in with the "crap" stuff. My experience just recommending a book doesn't lead me to "recommend" a boat!!!

[FastCruiser]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

BTW, one of the things that the pardeys mention is that if you just continue to sail "downwind", you just stay in the storm longer. "Heaving to" if it works, allows the storm to go past you and leaves you behind it when it is over.

You are right, and after watching the way storms form and circle, clockwise in the north and counter in the south, you can predict the least active quarter in the storm and set a course for that quarter. that way letting the storm by-pass you all-together.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

I didnt say you couldnt use a performance hull, I do and have been cruising for the last 12 years on one. and here it falls back on the skipper, as what do you want out of a boat. and many older full keel boats are performance yachts.
All I was saying is that there is NO standard way of thinking that any two boats will sail or react the same, different boats, different keels, different rudders, different sails, sloops, cutters, staysails, furrlers, double enders, overhangs, cat riggs, and a mass amount of other options that make a boat handle different in the hands of different people..
You take all the information you've read, apply all the you've learned in sail handeling, go out on a couple hundred different boat over a number of years and maybe just by chance, you'll come to a conclusion of what you as a skipper might want in a boat,, and thats today, tomorow you might change your mind.

A lot of wisdom there Randy and well put.

_____________

[FastCruiser]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

I'm going to punt and say that it is "too soon to say". I only have a couple of months of study time so anything that I decided would be suspect anyway.

In reading the Pardey book they say if you do crossings you will run into really bad weather. The full keel or modified full keels seem to be a good fit for single handing out in bad weather.

The bigger problem for me is simply that I am budget constrained, so I can't simply study study study and then say "OK I'll take that one". Plus the boats often quoted as "blue water" are often "cult following" boats and folks with bigger wallets than mine out bid me so to speak.

And finally, if I did throw out a make / model all that would happen is that certain folks would just jump in with the "crap" stuff. My experience just recommending a book doesn't lead me to "recommend" a boat!!!

you are going to catch crap no matter what you buy but if you keep in in prospective, you'll find a fair amount of followers.
Lets take one boat for example, one with a lot of controversy.. A Westsail 32 for example. Not a bad boat and infact a great boat for blue water passage and can be had for very little. (one sold in the marina where I recently was for about 3k.. ) it needed some work but a good find ..
Now if you purchase the boat, and state its the boat you feel safest on with you and your family and fits within your budget. you'll find a mass amount of support,
But if you come back stating the Westsail 32 is the all out best cruiser/racer built on earth and no other boat comes close to it in comfort and speed, you are infact insulting every other person with a boat other than what you have.
Remember, in the real world of cruising, and I've said this a number of times, when talking to other cruisers, the type of boat seldom comes up. and if so its in a joking manner..

The two items of conversation that often come up is , Where can you get a good greezey hamburger and where to get an ice-cream..

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

BTW, one of the things that the pardeys mention is that if you just continue to sail "downwind", you just stay in the storm longer. "Heaving to" if it works, allows the storm to go past you and leaves you behind it when it is over.

We must see all such statements in context. We would have to ask Lin and Larry to provide theirs.

Below I am using my licentia poetica:

Context A: look at their boat, see where they are coming from.

Context B: not all storms move, see QB Storm.

Context C: at times your destination is up-storm, at other times it may be down-storm.

Context D: a number of experienced ocean going skippers will see heaving too (in a small boat, in a serious storm) as a first class ticket to getting hit beyond repair.

Etc.

Imho blue offshore things should be designed and built so that the crew can take either option, in relative safety. Otherwise, with only one option, the boat should be designed to excel at this point.

Much of the above is directly related to the size of the boat. However, when the boat is too small, she should be designed and built to allow for that extra margin that will be required only perhaps 0.01% of her sea-time, but which may, in fact, end our cruising (or racing) adventures.

b.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...Context D: a number of experienced ocean going skippers will see heaving to (in a small boat, in a serious storm) as a first class ticket to getting hit beyond repair...
b.

Yes, having read Pardey and Moitessier (and others) on this subject, when the proverbial hits the fan, there are times we must follow Pardey and other times when necessity dictates we follow Moitessier.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

That moniker derives from the original days of the CRUISING WORLD Bulletin Board, back when Herb was the editor of the mag, and basically served as the 'moderator' of the forum... I got into a pissing match with some lurker there, and he branded me the "#1 Gasbag of the CWBB", and, somehow, it stuck... :-)

SOMEHOW . . .




I'm the same, 3 of my Alltime Dream Boats from afar have always been the Alden 44, the Cambria 44/46, and the F&C 44...

But upon having the chance to finally go aboard each, they became lowered a bit in my estimation :-) I have no doubt they all sail like a dream, and I'd still own any of them in a heartbeat if I could, but they really are a bit cut up and relatively 'cramped' down below...

Ditto for the Hinckley's I've seen. Cramped, dark, and a bit cave-like. But like your Alltime Dream Boats, they all leave me with wobbly knees. Funny how certain designs (from the past) seem timelessly pleasing. They also seem to do many things quite well as opposed to some of the starker trade-offs of more recent designs. But I freely admit my bias, and that definitely includes aesthetics! But is this an offset companionway on a Cambria?? (also one of my ATF's)



Speaking of obvious bias, I found the relative openness & brightness of my Bristol rather refreshing. Maybe it's the raised cabin sides, profusion of ports, sunken galley, or CC-facilitated spacious aft cabin, but the interior always seemed more inviting, comfortable & functional in a seaway. And yes, also quite liveable at the dock!

If there is one thing I could request re many of the OPB's I get to sail, it would be a Moratorium on Pedestal NavPod Proliferation... It's ridicuous the extent that some of these Erector Set Clusters are being taken to these days...

I loved this Cabo Rico 42, a wonderful all around boat... But this array at the helm, unbelievable... This is the eye-level view forward, when seated behind the wheel atop a couple of additional cushions. If I lined it up just right, I had a clear view of the horizon thru that 3/4" slit between the plotter and the bank of instruments :-)





Absolutely mind-boggling, the extent to which this cluster-f impeded the utility of the cockpit... And at night, fuggeddabouddit, the only solution when you actually wanted to be able to see, would be to simply drape a beach towel over the whole stoopid thing :-)









But again, based on what I'm seeing out there these days, that's probably just me...

Or, perhaps the distortion of a wide angle lens... :-)

Fully dimmable instruments over the companionway seem to work better, no? I have an 8" plotter at the helm and was shocked to learn after buying it that it could only be dimmed so far at night. That was eventually corrected by firmware, but it makes you wonder if some of these electronics gurus have ever sailed at night. By contrast, my ancient, analog radar repeater at the helm is infinitely dimmable until completely dark. Go figure . . . .

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Exile

Fully dimmable instruments over the companionway seem to work better, no? I have an 8" plotter at the helm and was shocked to learn after buying it that it could only be dimmed so far at night. That was eventually corrected by firmware, but it makes you wonder if some of these electronics gurus have ever sailed at night.

I develop software for a living and I can tell ya, nope, probably never set foot on a boat. The job description will discuss 57 different, mutually exclusive skills required to get the programming job but sailing will probably never be mentioned.

The best you can hope for is that they take feedback and use it to fix the problems.

Humorous though, Bob Perry was designing yachts for a long darned time before he actually managed to buy one.He did a lot of sailing before that though.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

... But if you come back stating the *** is the all out best cruiser/racer built on earth and no other boat comes close to it in comfort and speed, you are in fact insulting every other person with a boat other than what you have. Remember, in the real world of cruising, and I've said this a number of times, when talking to other cruisers, the type of boat seldom comes up, and if so its in a joking manner..

I read this as saying that good etiquette dictates we do NOT compare different yachts or their superiority to others in any way, it's just not cool. Are we treading on toes, shaking trees, stepping over the line, by even discussing this subject on a forum such as this? Sorry, I'm new here - hadn't realized.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I read this as saying that good etiquette dictates we do NOT compare different yachts or their superiority to others in any way, it's just not cool. Are we treading on toes, shaking trees, stepping over the line, by even discussing this subject on a forum such as this? Sorry, I'm new here - hadn't realized.

Nah, I wouldn't recommend bowing out -- too many experienced, well-informed people who will periodically pipe up with some all too valuable info or advice. Hard to police the etiquette issues. Much better off just developing a thicker skin, occasioned with at least the appearance of humility. I also find it helpful to freely admit my own biases on various topics such as these, but I've gotten better (I hope) at avoiding offending certain folks who often have strong opinions. The reality is that you guys have already instigated a lot of good info, and are also doing your own research. If others feel otherwise, I'm sure they'll just unsubscribe. No biggie -- it's only an internet forum after all.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

I develop software for a living and I can tell ya, nope, probably never set foot on a boat. The job description will discuss 57 different, mutually exclusive skills required to get the programming job but sailing will probably never be mentioned.

The best you can hope for is that they take feedback and use it to fix the problems.

In my case with the dimmer on my helm-mounted chartplotter, that's what Garmin apparently did. I often just turn it off anyway -- especially at night -- and just rely on the compass & radar. It's great approaching a coastline but maybe not as critical as my depth sounder!

[NormanMartin]

Blue water cruising yacht requirements/standards. No one ever mentions the requirements or standards for blue water sailors. Curious omission.

Let's red-line the ego meter: I mentored under some really fine seamen, some of whom were women. I refer to my grandmother and mother as but not exclusive leading examples. Later, as a sailing instructor, I mentored many more students. Darn if some haven't sailed farther and had more fun that I have.

For those of you who read blogs, check out friend, Tim on Slick, at: hardleyanythingworks dot com. His Sept 01, 2014 post Mes Malo in Mahon... post details the real costs of cruising. Very interesting. Tim's boat... look it up. Anyway, Tim's a blue water guy. What's a blue water boat? Who cares. What's a blue water sailor? How about Kelly and Kelly at kkmoorea dot com?

Similarlity? Resourceful. No drama. If you like living on the ocean, you will succeed.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Blue water cruising yacht requirements/standards. No one ever mentions the requirements or standards for blue water sailors. Curious omission.....

Way off topic - this is discussing boats, not skipper's qualifications. Please start another thread that I don't need to read.

[NormanMartin]

The sailor makes the boat and the voyage. However, since you object, I will retire from the thread.