Termites in the hull.

[Emouchet]

Cry a bit, and run away. Termites are terminators on wooden boat.

[Lepke]

All the neat stuff on the boat doesn't count if the hull is no good.

While C-flex is used for home built boats, I saw it in my yard as a life extension used on older commercial wood boats. For a long lasting hull, the wood has to be kept perfectly dry. Otherwise it rots. It's very hard. if not impossible, to dry a wood hull encased in fiberglass. Tenting won't kill all the termites. Possibly poisoning all the wood, might. Then you'd be traveling in a cocoon of poison. Termites are common in wood in the tropics.

If you did all the work yourself, got materials at a discount, it would still be cheaper to buy another boat. It would be more than $100Gs for a yard to repair that boat. You're dreaming if you think 20-40Gs would repair that bottom. The only way to fix delamination is remove the fiberglass and start over. And the wood has to be dry. In 5 years the boat probably won't be floating.

[Pegu Club]

With all respect, that boat is dead, just walk away.

Fair winds,

[dfelsent]

You have five grand into buying a boat. Key idea here is “buying a boat” not “buying this boat.”
When I was last boat shopping I spent money and time visiting boats that turned out to be not right. That’s part of the adventure.
It’s sad when a boat isn’t what you want, but it’s great when that helps you understand what you really do want.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Tim francis

I am in escrow on a 43 Bruce Roberts built in Trinidad in 1998 using c flex construction. I waited 2.5 months for the boat to be hauled out. After 1550 in survey fees, I got the news that the bottom was in bad shape. Several large blisters and a few somewhat superficial cracks in the glass. Maybe not somewhat superficial. You would think this post should be titled thank god for surveys but in the situation I’m in now, I may make an offer of a dollar. I have about five grand or more invested in it up to and including travel between Maui and Oahu. The in water survey for the most part was good and valued pretty high. It would make a great liveaboard with a great Perkins and a five kw genset that needs about a thousand dollars in repairs. I’ve been living in my conversion van to save money for a great cruiser. I think if I can get the boat with out spending another fistful of thousand dollar bills, I could liveaboard and daysail for my planned five or so years before full time cruising. I’m 39 single no kids and full time captain. If I can get the bottom patched up and painted, with the certainty of it holding water out of the boat, it may be worth it. That’s my thought process. Offer a dollar and use it near coastal only with epirb in hand. I doubt I would insure it. I doubt I can get full coverage. Unfortunately I’m already emotionally involved with the boat. This post is to tell of my story from my initial offer to this point three months later. Also, there’s not a lot of bells and whistles. The reefer is awesome, sails in good shape minus the Mizzen. Great head. 120 gallons water with water maker and 140 diesel. Very roomy inside. New paint inside and out. New cushions throughout. Two central ac units. Liferaft needs recertification. One gps. One starting battery. No bank batteries. Oven works. Tons of storage. Huge aft berth. Winless. Hot water heater. Etc. the owner is heartbroken of course. The boat sat for at least six years with minimal sail time. Engine started once a week but not generator. Genset locked up. Bottom cleaned monthly. Since it will be on my mooring, I’d buy more solar and possible wind generator. I’m not sure how much the bottom patch job and more panels, batteries will cost me but I’ll get that estimate tomorrow. They are tenting the boat and nuking the termites. There’s also a possibility of fixing the bottom professionally in five years when I can save and budget the 20 to 40 thousand to do it right. I’ll move to Oahu and do the majority of the bottom work at that time as my full time job if I take that route.


Wish me luck and I know I should run away. Aloha and mahalo.

This boat is not C-flex. C-flex is glass. It does not rot, termites don't eat it. If you were told it is C-flex then it seems it was misrepresented.

My boat is C-flex. It is good, but I am not aware that it is still in use. It was best for One-off's, not boats built in a mold.

And anyhow you are not going to "patch" up this boat and get it to Oahu.

Disregarding the bottom, the other items you mentioned will be far more expensive to fix than you imagine.

BTW, if "the owner is heartbroken" he should not have left it for six years. Boats deserve more than just neglect.

[Tim francis]

The blueprints in the boat showed c flex construction but obviously it isn’t. I’ll listen to y’all advice. I’m going to see what I can get back and move on. So I’m running. Thanks for your replies.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lepke

All the neat stuff on the boat doesn't count if the hull is no good.

While C-flex is used for home built boats, I saw it in my yard as a life extension used on older commercial wood boats. For a long lasting hull, the wood has to be kept perfectly dry. Otherwise it rots. It's very hard. if not impossible, to dry a wood hull encased in fiberglass. Tenting won't kill all the termites. Possibly poisoning all the wood, might. Then you'd be traveling in a cocoon of poison. Termites are common in wood in the tropics.

If you did all the work yourself, got materials at a discount, it would still be cheaper to buy another boat. It would be more than $100Gs for a yard to repair that boat. You're dreaming if you think 20-40Gs would repair that bottom. The only way to fix delamination is remove the fiberglass and start over. And the wood has to be dry. In 5 years the boat probably won't be floating.

I believe you hit the nail on the head. It in all likelihood is a wooden hull someone had stapled C-flex onto and put a thin layer of glass over explaining the 1/8th inch of glass on the extracted plugs. Looking at the color of the plug pics they did not even use monel or SS staples since it looks rusty. I hope he runs.

[unbusted67]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...dard%20listing

Assuming it is this boat? So weird I was just looking at this boat today randomly searching boats for sale in Hawaii.

I concur with the internet people. Run don't walk.

My wife and I bought a boat for the money we put down on it when the surveyor found rotten decks. We were able to fix the decks because the sandwich for the plywood on the underside was very light and easy to cut away and then replace the plywood in between. That said, it was an absolutely massive job. It sounds like the water intrusion on this boat is probably the entire vessel.

And yeah, it is weird that the owner said it was C flex construction but it is in fact cored. I like what the previous poster said. Think of this as money spent towards finding a boat, not this boat.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I believe you hit the nail on the head. It in all likelihood is a wooden hull someone had stapled C-flex onto and put a thin layer of glass over explaining the 1/8th inch of glass on the extracted plugs. Looking at the color of the plug pics they did not even use monel or SS staples since it looks rusty. I hope he runs.

That's just what soggy marine ply looks like. I don't see staples in this pic.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

That's just what soggy marine ply looks like. I don't see staples in this pic.

You wouldn't see them just the rust color. If carbon steel was used it would bleed through the soggy wood in all directions. It was a thought that someone went cheap. Price a box of monel of SS common T50 staples.
At any rate he said he was running. I was glad to hear that. I hope he doesn't have to eat to much money and has learned something.

[Fore and Aft]

I am glad he has listened and is not going to buy the boat. I had a client last year that purchased a home built Roberts. I told him not to buy the boat due to the large amount of problems it had and I even got the rigger who did the rigging inspection to say the same thing. But this guy still went ahead and paid a large amount of money for a boat that was not worth fixing.
The worst bit was I caught the owner smirking a few times, since he knew he had found the fool to buy his boat.
Cheers

[dennismenace111]

Originally Posted by Tim francis

I am in escrow on a 43 Bruce Roberts built in Trinidad in 1998 using c flex construction. I waited 2.5 months for the boat to be hauled out. After 1550 in survey fees, I got the news that the bottom was in bad shape. Several large blisters and a few somewhat superficial cracks in the glass. Maybe not somewhat superficial. You would think this post should be titled thank god for surveys but in the situation I’m in now, I may make an offer of a dollar. I have about five grand or more invested in it up to and including travel between Maui and Oahu. The in water survey for the most part was good and valued pretty high. It would make a great liveaboard with a great Perkins and a five kw genset that needs about a thousand dollars in repairs. I’ve been living in my conversion van to save money for a great cruiser. I think if I can get the boat with out spending another fistful of thousand dollar bills, I could liveaboard and daysail for my planned five or so years before full time cruising. I’m 39 single no kids and full time captain. If I can get the bottom patched up and painted, with the certainty of it holding water out of the boat, it may be worth it. That’s my thought process. Offer a dollar and use it near coastal only with epirb in hand. I doubt I would insure it. I doubt I can get full coverage. Unfortunately I’m already emotionally involved with the boat. This post is to tell of my story from my initial offer to this point three months later. Also, there’s not a lot of bells and whistles. The reefer is awesome, sails in good shape minus the Mizzen. Great head. 120 gallons water with water maker and 140 diesel. Very roomy inside. New paint inside and out. New cushions throughout. Two central ac units. Liferaft needs recertification. One gps. One starting battery. No bank batteries. Oven works. Tons of storage. Huge aft berth. Winless. Hot water heater. Etc. the owner is heartbroken of course. The boat sat for at least six years with minimal sail time. Engine started once a week but not generator. Genset locked up. Bottom cleaned monthly. Since it will be on my mooring, I’d buy more solar and possible wind generator. I’m not sure how much the bottom patch job and more panels, batteries will cost me but I’ll get that estimate tomorrow. They are tenting the boat and nuking the termites. There’s also a possibility of fixing the bottom professionally in five years when I can save and budget the 20 to 40 thousand to do it right. I’ll move to Oahu and do the majority of the bottom work at that time as my full time job if I take that route.


Wish me luck and I know I should run away. Aloha and mahalo.

Dont just walk away from this boat, RLH!!!...Run Like Hell!

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Similar thing happened to me. We went to look at a big custom Rudy Chou cat. The hull was advertised as TWO layers of 1/4” Marine grade ply covered with glass inside out. Fortunately while we were enroute to look at the boat the Owner creased a reef and holed an ama exposing the actual construction, we viewed it in the hard. It was clearly only a SINGLE 1/4” ply layer, and other inconsistencies. Fortunately this occurred early and no money changed hands. Good luck.

Do you mean Rudy Choy and was that the boat in Mexico?

[Cliffhanger]

I had a similar situation about a year ago with a catamaran. Glass over ply construction, only 4 years old. I knew there were some issue at first inspection as there were a couple of soft spots in the deck and around a window but i couldn't see any more. Everything else about the boat was perfect and I loved it! I figured I could fix a small amount of rot easily enough. The surveyor had a look at the boat and after 10 mins walking around saying "nah, that's rot, that's rot and that's more rot..... this boat is FUBAR" Minimum $50k to fix and there could be more unseen. So, I took his advice and walked away. Cost me $1000 but probably saved me a fortune.



That is why we use surveyors.

[Lepke]

C-Flex is like a fiberglass cloth with flexible plastic rods spaced several inches apart in the cloth. It comes in rolls. Homebuilders lay it over bulkheads and ribs to quickly form the hull shape. But it takes several additional layers of cloth and resin to make the outer skin. Then you go inside and put several more layers of cloth and resin to end up with a hull of at least 1/4 to 3/8".

In old wooden boats it's stapled to the hull and when done right, resin is forced thru to bond with the hull. At least 1/4" of additional layers are done. And you end up with a heavy boat. A wood hull plus a fiberglass one on the same displacement. The wood hull has to stay dry. No water in the bilge, no deck leaks, no drips or the wood rots. With pre-EPA wood preservers you might protect the wood hull, but not today.