Tender/Dinghy with makeshift sailing rig vs outboard

[KetoNomad]

I rarely see people's dinghies without an outboard on the back. I suppose it might be nice to have an outboard in some ways but I can think of a lot of reasons to not have one (target for theft, requires stowage of volatile fuel aboard, something else to fix, undesired expense of purchase etc.). I'm guessing most people just go the outboard route because it's fast (when it works) and you don't have to employ as much strategy in use as you would rowing or sailing.

Me, I'm a cheap and broke bastard and I hate fixing stuff, engines especially. I wonder then how practical it'd be to have some cheap sail cloth and a few makeshift spars lashed together to make a sailing rig. It'll look ugly and probably not get stolen (I hope) as a result. I know these rigs can be made fairly easily as they are commercially available for dinghies and everything else you can imagine so it probably wouldn't take an engineer to figure out how to duplicate one of the commercial rigs with some wood.

I dunno, what do you think? I've only sailed keelboats so I don't know if this is a ridiculous idea.

[GILow]

When I was a young lad I spent a lot of time making my own sails and rigging. In the process I learned two things:

1. It is surprisingly easy to make a rowing dinghy sail DOWNWIND. Any other direction... not so easy.

2. Is a bloody long walk home when you are pulling a dinghy along behind you on a rope as you wade along a mangrove littered shoreline in shin depth water.

I too am not at all fond of outboards, but by golly I know why they are so popular, despite their foibles.

If it helps, I have found that the old 3.5 HP Tohatsu that came with our boat has addressed just about every complaint I have ever had about outboards, it starts easily, takes a hell of a lot of abuse without complaining and it can be carried in one hand. I am sure such a thing can still be found for a song, certainly a tiny fraction of the cost of putting any kind of workable and reliable sailing rig on a dinghy.

Matt

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by GILow

When I was a young lad I spent a lot of time making my own sails and rigging. In the process I learned two things:

1. It is surprisingly easy to make a rowing dinghy sail DOWNWIND. Any other direction... not so easy.

2. Is a bloody long walk home when you are pulling a dinghy along behind you on a rope as you wade along a mangrove littered shoreline in shin depth water.

I too am not at all fond of outboards, but by golly I know why they are so popular, despite their foibles.

If it helps, I have found that the old 3.5 HP Tohatsu that came with our boat has addressed just about every complaint I have ever had about outboards, it starts easily, takes a hell of a lot of abuse without complaining and it can be carried in one hand. I am sure such a thing can still be found for a song, certainly a tiny fraction of the cost of putting any kind of workable and reliable sailing rig on a dinghy.

Matt

That's kind of the response I was expecting :| Haha, well thank your for sharing your experience. I have the feeling I will likely follow the herd on this one.

[JPA Cate]

Rowing dinghies can be a lot of fun, particularly if you like to explore swamps, and mangrove creeks, and good exercise.

If you ever have to try and row out an anchor in a thunderstorm, because you need the holding power of the second anchor, you'll wish you had a motor, or were 16 yrs. old again.

You don't have a "big boat" yet, but if you bought a trailer sailer, you could use it's o/b for the dinghy, and have something of each world.

Ann

[fatherchronica]

We have a hard dinghy that I row a lot, because I like it, I am building a sailing rig for it using my sculling oar as a mast. But, we do have a Lehr outboard, and use it a lot too. We have a friend with a 63' steel sloop who sailed back and forth from Central California to the Golfo de California with a big outboard for power and his dinghy was a tiny little hard one with a homemade rig. Due to having only one broken leeboard he could not point to well on one tack and pretty much not at all the other way. His mate was teaching us celestial navigation once a week for awhile and sometimes we would sit and watch them tack and tack and tack and tack and then run in a quarter mile down the beach and walk up. If you have the time I see no reason not to just have a sailing dinghy, pretty much none of my sailing heroes growing up ever had an outboard, and they saw a lot more of the earth than I am likely to.

[TrentePieds]

If you want to get rid of the "iron wind", you need a dinghy that will not only row, but also sail well. When I wuz a lad "outboards" hadn't even been invented:-)!

Not true, really, but only the very richest "yachtsmen" (as opposed to "sailors") could afford them, and I'd certainly never met one till I came here.

So what you want is really "old school", and easy enuff to contrive, but dinghies like all other boats are compromises, e.g. you cannot have an 8 or 10 foot dinghy that will carry an OB on the transom and ALSO row and sail well. You pays yer money and takes yer pick!

As for rowing qualities, the "ideal" has to be the "Whitehall" model. Look it up. It's a "waterman's" boat developed in windship days for such things as taxi-service in New York Harbour. They had to carry significant weight for their size. You couldn't make your wages as a waterman in a boat that didn't row well while carrying significant paying cargo in terms of people and goods, and that is what the Whitehall does. However, you can only retain the "model" (the lines) down to a certain length. Then the beam becomes too narrow for practical purposes, among them the leverage you get from the moment arm between you hand and the rowlock. Minimum practical length would be around 12 feet.

As for sailing, Whitehalls track superbly, but have to be fitted with a centreboard in order to beat to weather. They weren't so fitted in their native state because they were meant to be rowed. But many people have modified the Whitehall to have a lifting centreboard, or even a leeboard like many dutch sailing vessels, and, say, Thames Sailing Barges, have. Whitehalls don't have rudders, so you'd have to fit a stern-hung, removable rudder a la racing dinghy.

Where I come from, where sailing dominated rowing due to the geography and the weather, the spritrig was the rig of choice for men who made their living in small boats. The boats had to be dirt cheap because people were dirt poor. No subsistence level in-shore fisherman could afford either to acquire or to keep a Whitehall. Therefore their boats were often boxy, hard-chined affairs of 14 or 18 feet. So now we are getting close to the idea of the racing dinghies of Jack Holt and his contemporaries. Those men were inspired by the workboats of old.

The spritrig means that you have lots of sail for when you need that, and a "deep reef" is easily taken when you need that. The spritrig can be cat or sloop according to your preference, and it is really, really significant for a tender for a small cruiser that every spar can be stowed within the dink so you can flip the whole issue butt over teakettle on your foredeck when you need to do that.

What you cannot do is have a small dink that rows and sails well, and will ALSO carry the weight of an outboard on the transom. Nor can you have a dink that will carry an OB on the transom and ALSO row and sail well.

So I guess two different dinks is the solution to that ;-0)!

TP

[zeehag]

friend used an umbrella to sail his pram....anything is possible.

[zedpassway]

You have not indicated what it is that you are using your dinghy for? This makes the difference.

Where I sail from, my mooring is about 2000 feet from the dock(in 55 degree or colder water). On days of great sailing, its nearly impossible to row the wide beam dinghy to the boat. On days of calm when its pretty easy, its crummy for sailing. So I use the dinghy to get me and my stuff and one or two friends out to the sail boat, secure the dinghy to the mooring, and then motor the boat back to the dock to pick up others, or simply go out into the bay from there. And the dinghy now has a 2.3 HP Honda air-cooled OB. its loud, but who's involved in a lot of quite conversation out to the sailboat. i used to have an electric MinKota $200 55lb pressure motor on it, but in heavy seas that required it to run flat out and ran the battery down to nuthin' real fast. I do have a nice Torqeedo 1003, but I can't leave that on the boat at the club since its too expensive to be sitting out for potential thieves. Besides, it my back-up engine for the sail boat if the 6 hp Tohatsu should die for some reason in becalmed seas.

Yes, my Walkerbay 10(with the rubber pontoon bumpers making it unsinkable) could have a sail put on it, but I can't imagine sailing out to the boat to go sailing.

Most people use their dinghy's to get from shore to the boat and back again. If you want to go sailing in a small 8-10 foot craft, I would not suggest a dinghy. If the motor in my sailboat died and I was in calm water, I could raft it to the sailboat and very slowly move to shore.

[jheldatksuedu]

I have a sailing dinghy that I have converted into a nesting 2 piece rowing dinghy. I don't have a sail for it but expect I will find one. I have experimented with a couple makeshift sailing rigs using the oars for spars. Like somebody above says, it works fine downwind. I expect once I find a good sail for the mast I've got upwind will be no problem, but unless I plan to sail from the start I will not have the mast and sails along, and rowing the dinghy with the 16 foot mast I'm sure would be no fun. The biggest problem to convert a rowing dinghy to a sailing dinghy is a centerboard. That's what is really necessary to do any upwind work in a sailboat. That and decent sail with a good aerodynamic shape. That's why I started with a sailing dinghy. You can see some of my work on my website.

The latest sailing rig I am happy with for downwind is a 6 foot square sail with 3 pvc pipe spars, making an square H rotated on its side with the sail filling all the space, the upper and lower spars bend inward so it is not quite square, maybe 1 foot shorter on each end. This square sail is hung on a hook that I attached to one of the oars where the blade meets the shaft. The handle end of the oar goes in the mast pocket, straight up and down with the sail hanging on the top. Two small lines from the bottom corners of the sail give you sheets. The other oar fits an oarlock mounted on the stern of the boat and gives you a rudder. I use extra long oars when I row, they probably are at least 8 feet. I have an aluminum centerboard.

This rig works great downwind and you only have the centerboard and a small (3 in diameter x 6 feet) rolled up sail that you carry when your not using it. The upper and lower pvc pipes are sewn into the edges of the sail and the center of the H pipe is held at the center and rotates and springs into place to separate and hold the other pipes apart. I'm sure even without the center board it wouldn't be too bad.

My basic reason for wanting a sailing dinghy is to use it to teach somebody how to sail and for recreation. I expect to solve my dinghy motor problem if I need one will use a gas powered generator and an electric trolling motor. I have both of those already but haven't tried them together. My boat is at a dock right now and I row about 2 miles every evening just for exercise, and enjoy it. I also ride the bike about 20 miles a day going places and enjoy that too, but have ridden a gas weed eater powered bike from Kansas to Florida. I'm working on a fold up / disassembling bike frame with a removable motor if I need one. The full size bike frame and full size wheels will fit in a standard large suitcase. Even the wheels come apart. I hate a bike with small wheels and frame. I enjoy this engineering.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

If you want to get rid of the "iron wind", you need a dinghy that will not only row, but also sail well. When I wuz a lad "outboards" hadn't even been invented:-)!

Not true, really, but only the very richest "yachtsmen" (as opposed to "sailors") could afford them, and I'd certainly never met one till I came here.

You never met anyone who had an outboard on their dinghy until you came to this forum? That's extraordinary.

To the OP, depending on how and where you use your boat, you may well end up following the herd. Because otherwise you'll one day need to get ashore and the wind will pick up and you won't be able to sail your dink to windward and you'll get blown to who know's where until you finally break out the oars and spend another 30 minutes just getting back to the boat, never mind shore. Or the reverse, with a thunderstorm threatening as you load up 30 lbs. of clean laundry it just cost you $10 wash and dry...

That said, sailing dinghies are absolutely wonderful to have and a real pleasure. But relying on wind and oars can really limit your options in many situations.

[Dave22q]

If the contest is home made sailing rig vs. cheap Jap outboard the motor wins on safety, reliability and convenience but if it's about fun go for it. You need a makeshift rudder and lee boards in addition to a mast and hardware so it a lot more complicated than it might seem. Also your lee boards may mess up your rowing so your backup would be sculling- more hardware plus the larger oar.

[Mike OReilly]

Not really what you’re asking, but I use a sailing rig with my 10’ portabote. It’s just for fun, and I wouldn’t really consider going far with it, but it does work. Uses a lateen rig and lee boards.

The portabote also rows very well, and can take a small outboard (I have a 3.5 Tohatsu). It’s fairly light and nearly indestructible. It also folds up nicely on my deck. Sadly, they’re not cheap (unless you can find a used one).

[Cheechako]

To me a stable dingy and fast outboard are one of the most important cruising items. It's my car. If you think of how far you can go and what you can see from a country home without a car.... it's the same without a dingy that will take you far away.
Often places to see and explore are not places you can take the mothership. You can zip out there in a fast dingy, spend the day, explore, fish etc and come back before nightfall. It makes all the difference in the world.
I've not had a lot of trouble with outboards, even though all mine were acquired used. Don't go cheap, get a good one.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

If you want to get rid of the "iron wind", you need a dinghy that will not only row, but also sail well. When I wuz a lad "outboards" hadn't even been invented:-)!

Not true, really, but only the very richest "yachtsmen" (as opposed to "sailors") could afford them, and I'd certainly never met one till I came here.

So what you want is really "old school", and easy enuff to contrive, but dinghies like all other boats are compromises, e.g. you cannot have an 8 or 10 foot dinghy that will carry an OB on the transom and ALSO row and sail well. You pays yer money and takes yer pick!

As for rowing qualities, the "ideal" has to be the "Whitehall" model. Look it up. It's a "waterman's" boat developed in windship days for such things as taxi-service in New York Harbour. They had to carry significant weight for their size. You couldn't make your wages as a waterman in a boat that didn't row well while carrying significant paying cargo in terms of people and goods, and that is what the Whitehall does. However, you can only retain the "model" (the lines) down to a certain length. Then the beam becomes too narrow for practical purposes, among them the leverage you get from the moment arm between you hand and the rowlock. Minimum practical length would be around 12 feet.

As for sailing, Whitehalls track superbly, but have to be fitted with a centreboard in order to beat to weather. They weren't so fitted in their native state because they were meant to be rowed. But many people have modified the Whitehall to have a lifting centreboard, or even a leeboard like many dutch sailing vessels, and, say, Thames Sailing Barges, have. Whitehalls don't have rudders, so you'd have to fit a stern-hung, removable rudder a la racing dinghy.

Where I come from, where sailing dominated rowing due to the geography and the weather, the spritrig was the rig of choice for men who made their living in small boats. The boats had to be dirt cheap because people were dirt poor. No subsistence level in-shore fisherman could afford either to acquire or to keep a Whitehall. Therefore their boats were often boxy, hard-chined affairs of 14 or 18 feet. So now we are getting close to the idea of the racing dinghies of Jack Holt and his contemporaries. Those men were inspired by the workboats of old.

The spritrig means that you have lots of sail for when you need that, and a "deep reef" is easily taken when you need that. The spritrig can be cat or sloop according to your preference, and it is really, really significant for a tender for a small cruiser that every spar can be stowed within the dink so you can flip the whole issue butt over teakettle on your foredeck when you need to do that.

What you cannot do is have a small dink that rows and sails well, and will ALSO carry the weight of an outboard on the transom. Nor can you have a dink that will carry an OB on the transom and ALSO row and sail well.

So I guess two different dinks is the solution to that ;-0)!

TP

I have had two Tinker Tramps, a quite remarkable craft. It's an inflatable, with a thwart amidships that supports a center board trunk. It planes with the aforementioned Tohatsu 3.5, sails reasonably well, including to windward, and rows like a champ. Not only that, but there is a life boat rig that can be added. I participated in a comparison test with a Switlik liferaft, and in many ways, including capsize resistance, the Tinker was superior. It's not big, however, about the smallest nine foot dinghy you can imagine, but there was also a Tramp model that was 12 feet long and had a roller fuller jib! One year I did the demo's in it for a boat show. Good upwind and down. Unfortunately, it seems they are no longer made.

[Cormorant]

We have a sailing/rowing hard dinghy -- Jim Michalak's "Vole" design, with a pivoting leeboard.

Trouble is, if you want to sail, you need to carry oars in case of emergency, which clutter up the boat, and make it tricky to jump over to the windward side whenever you tack.

If you want to row but bring the sailing ring along for the return trip, the unstepped rig laid in the cockpit really clutters up the boat. Or you can leave the mast up and trice the boom and sail and yard up to it, but then you have extra wind resistance and you're top-heavy.

If it's just you, you might be able to cope with all that. Your call. (But if you try it with a family of 4, chaos and unhappiness will ensue. )

All that said, I love our dinghy. I love rowing it and I love sailing it. It tows well and tracks well. It's a joy to sail among the larger boats in a harbor. It has even worked well for solo camp-cruising. But there are times it can't fulfill all the functions one would want of a tender.