Ted Brewer Design - Huromic 35 - Thoughts?

[KISS]

Ted Brewer Huromic 35

Cutter/Double Headsail Sloop
All Steel Construction
Radius Bilge Hull
LOA = 35'8"
LWL = 28'4"
Beam = 11'6"
Draft = 4'9"
Ballast = 6,200lbs
SA = 649ft2
Displacement = 17,000lbs
Tankage = 35g fuel, 75g water

Hull Speed = 7.13 knots
D/LWL = 333.8
SA/D = 15.7
Ballast/D = 36.5%
Capsize Factor = 1.79
Prismatic Coefficient = .55



N.B. I plan to sail with only a small outboard for harbor work, so I would remove the designed inboard and exchange the fuel tank for an additional water tank.

I'm looking for a steel boat in the 30-35ish LOA range (30 being the minimum I need for living/storage space, 35ish being about the max I think I can handle comfortably with manual winches) to singlehand as a full time livaboard, for Caribbean and Med cruising (meaning frequent Atlantic crossings). Priorities are survivability in extreme conditions, ease of singlehanding (e.g. as relates to self-steering ability), and speed, in that order. The interior layout in the plans can be ignored, as I'll redesign it to my own requirements (though it looks pretty good, actually).

The Huromic is on the high end of my LOA range, but appears to hit the right notes otherwise, from what (little) I know of boat design. If you had my purpose and priorities in mind, how would you evaluate this boat? Will it suit my needs poorly, adequately, or well? Can you think of another design (must be steel and 30-35ish LOA) which would be better?

(I understand there is no objectively right answer to this question, I'm asking for your opinion).

Thanks

[roverhi]

Looks like a decent design for cruising. Would want a bridge deck in front of companionway. I like to sleep on deck under the protection of the dodger when conditions allow or stand watch when needed. Tiller will work best with pendulum servo steering. We had 70 gallons of water and never had an issue with too little water for the two of us in a year in French Polynesia. Would reconsider going engine less or an outboard. There will be times when you'll want to motor for a full day or longer and those without engines become beggars looking for tows through passes or into harbors. Not that this boat is too small but you should be able single hand a boat up 40'/20,000# with properly sized manual sheet/halyard winches with no problem especially with roller furling headsail.

Are you buying this boat or planning on building it. If the latter,mspeaking from experience would discourage you. If you want to go sailing, go sailing. If you want to build a boat, build a boat. Don't try and mix the two as most people who try accomplish neither. We were one of the few people who attempted to build a boat who actually got it done and went sailing. It took more than a year of 24/12 labor, parts of four fingers, and costing as much as a well found and equipped boat.

[dannc]

I like Brewer's designs and I really like the Huromic 35.

I found a decent amount of information on the Internet about the Huromic when we were reading up on the boat. The boats are also sometimes called Goderich 35's from the town they were made.

There was a Huromic 35 for sale in NC. Cheap. It was cheap because it had sunk. Twas a real shame. It was hard to tell from the photos but there appeared to have been rust through in the hull in a couple of spots that might have caused the sinking.

A steel boat MUST have the interior hull correctly prepped, painted and insulated. I never could find out how the interior hull was done on the Huromic's. The suspected rust through I saw appeared to be from the wet exhaust so the problem might have been localized and not through out the hull.

Just something to be aware when have a survey done.

Later,
Dan

[KISS]

Thanks for the info roverhi

Originally Posted by roverhi

Would want a bridge deck in front of companionway.

Likewise

Tiller will work best with pendulum servo steering.

That's the plan.

We had 70 gallons of water and never had an issue with too little water for the two of us in a year in French Polynesia.

Did you buy water?

I was hoping to rely 100% on rain.

For dry parts of the Carib/Med, that means more than typical storage.

Would reconsider going engine less or an outboard. There will be times when you'll want to motor for a full day or longer and those without engines become beggars looking for tows through passes or into harbors.

There will be limitations, but IMO the trade-off's worth it.

...I know this is an unusual and controversial choice.

Not that this boat is too small but you should be able single hand a boat up 40'/20,000# with properly sized manual sheet/halyard winches with no problem especially with roller furling headsail.

Definitely don't need the additional space, or expense, or build time, even if handling weren't an issue. I'd only go bigger if performance in the shorter boats was severely lacking. As far as roller furling, I'd like to avoid that for the usual reasons cited (sail shape, jamming, etc), hence the appeal of the double headsail rig, for quicker changes with hank on sails. Though I think a twin (parallel) headsail rig is even better, but I can't seem to find any designs for one.

Are you buying this boat or planning on building it. If the latter would discourage you speaking from experience. If you want to go sailing, go sailing. If you want to build a boat, build a boat. Don't try and mix the two as most people who try accomplish neither.

Building, but it'll be quite a few years before I'm in a position to liveaboard anyway. And in the meantime I'll have a lot of free time to devote to building. I've considered having the shell built professionally and doing the rest myself, but that'll depend on the cost.

Thanks again

[KISS]

Originally Posted by dannc

I like Brewer's designs and I really like the Huromic 35.

I found a decent amount of information on the Internet about the Huromic when we were reading up on the boat. The boats are also sometimes called Goderich 35's from the town they were made.

There was a Huromic 35 for sale in NC. Cheap. It was cheap because it had sunk. Twas a real shame. It was hard to tell from the photos but there appeared to have been rust through in the hull in a couple of spots that might have caused the sinking.

A steel boat MUST have the interior hull correctly prepped, painted and insulated. I never could find out how the interior hull was done on the Huromic's. The suspected rust through I saw appeared to be from the wet exhaust so the problem might have been localized and not through out the hull.

Just something to be aware when have a survey done.

Later,
Dan

Yea, from everything I've heard, buying old steel is a pretty bad idea (prices reflecting this...). And even if it appears sound, the popular way to build a boat interior doesn't give enough access to the interior of the hull for my taste, which means I'd probably gut it anyway. And go ahead and strip it down to bare metal and repaint. And at that point, might as well just build it new.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by KISS

Yea, from everything I've heard, buying old steel is a pretty bad idea (prices reflecting this...). And even if it appears sound, the popular way to build a boat interior doesn't give enough access to the interior of the hull for my taste, which means I'd probably gut it anyway. And go ahead and strip it down to bare metal and repaint. And at that point, might as well just build it new.

Ironically, having to rip out the interior to see the hull was why we were looking at the sunk boat. Everything needed to come out of the hull anyway so we would see the hull. We never physically looked at boat since we simply do not have the time to do that kind of work right now.

Have you read the blogs of people who have built there own boats?
Are you a member of the Metal Boat Society?

Later,
Dan

[KISS]

Originally Posted by dannc

Have you read the blogs of people who have built there own boats?

Quite a few, yes.

Are you a member of the Metal Boat Society?

No, though I've browsed their forum a lot (great resource).

Sadly, the forum recently closed.

If/when it reopens, I'm going to open an account there.

BTW, if anyone has a rough idea of what it would cost to have a hull like the Huromic professionally built (just the steelwork + coatings), I'd love to know. Haven't found any information, as I guess this is not commonly done.

I could buy the study plans and send them to a yard for a quote, but I'd just be yanking their chain at this point, since I won't be building for some years: they'd not like that I'm sure.

[sanibel sailor]

Building a boat to go sailing is putting the cart before the horse. You do not have enough experience to know where to make the zillion choices/compromises. F'rinstance, other than a SMALL handful of outspoken authors, almost every long term cruiser has an inboard... You really need to be skillful to do without, not what I would suggest for a neophyte.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

Building a boat to go sailing is putting the cart before the horse. You do not have enough experience to know where to make the zillion choices/compromises. F'rinstance, other than a SMALL handful of outspoken authors, almost every long term cruiser has an inboard... You really need to be skillful to do without, not what I would suggest for a neophyte.

Nothing certain at this point. I have much more studying to do, as well as on the water training and then chartering. If after I've sailed several styles of charter's engineless (of course they'll have engines, but I don't have to use them), I decide that's not for me, well okay.

We shall see...

[dannc]

Originally Posted by KISS

Quite a few, yes.

No, though I've browsed their forum a lot (great resource).

Sadly, the forum recently closed.

If/when it reopens, I'm going to open an account there.

BTW, if anyone has a rough idea of what it would cost to have a hull like the Huromic professionally built (just the steelwork + coatings), I'd love to know. Haven't found any information, as I guess this is not commonly done.

The MBS forums are back up, I just logged in but it seems you have to be a member. I thought non members used to be able to read the forum?

The guesstimate I have read is that that hull is about 15% of the cost of the boat. Now the question is how much would it cost to built a new Huromic 35? There is a guy who is building a Diesel Duck 38 that had the hull built in NC and trucked up to Boston where he is finishing out. I read his blog but it had gone quiet when I last looked a few years ago. The wood working he was doing was excellent.

I would recommend Gilbert C. Klingel's book "Boat Building with Steel" and Thomas Colvin's books "Steel Boat Building Volume 1 and 2". These are out of print but I have found them on Amazon.

Kasten's website has a great deal of information on building metal boats and he was the editor for the MBS for many years. You can also by all of the back issues of the Metal Boat Quarterly.

Later,
Dan

[KISS]

Originally Posted by dannc

The MBS forums are back up, I just logged in but it seems you have to be a member. I thought non members used to be able to read the forum?

We were. Now, when I go to the forum url, I get a message that the new forum is still under construction. The old one is still available in archive form.

EDIT: just checked it again, apparently the old forum isn't just an archive, it's active. Good news. Going to go ahead and register.

The guesstimate I have read is that that hull is about 15% of the cost of the boat. Now the question is how much would it cost to built a new Huromic 35? There is a guy who is building a Diesel Duck 38 that had the hull built in NC and trucked up to Boston where he is finishing out. I read his blog but it had gone quiet when I last looked a few years ago. The wood working he was doing was excellent.

I would recommend Gilbert C. Klingel's book "Boat Building with Steel" and Thomas Colvin's books "Steel Boat Building Volume 1 and 2". These are out of print but I have found them on Amazon.

Kasten's website has a great deal of information on building metal boats and he was the editor for the MBS for many years. You can also by all of the back issues of the Metal Boat Quarterly.

Later,
Dan

Thanks, will definitely look into those.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by KISS

Thanks for the info roverhi



Likewise

That's the plan.

Did you buy water?

I was hoping to rely 100% on rain.

For dry parts of the Carib/Med, that means more than typical storage.

There will be limitations, but IMO the trade-off's worth it.

...I know this is an unusual and controversial choice.

Definitely don't need the additional space, or expense, or build time, even if handling weren't an issue. I'd only go bigger if performance in the shorter boats was severely lacking. As far as roller furling, I'd like to avoid that for the usual reasons cited (sail shape, jamming, etc), hence the appeal of the double headsail rig, for quicker changes with hank on sails. Though I think a twin (parallel) headsail rig is even better, but I can't seem to find any designs for one

We caught water from our aft of the mast awning and didn't have to schlep water from shore for over the year we were in FP. 70 gallons would last us two months.

Roller furling headsail gear is pretty much fool proof from the major mfg's these days. Sail shape can be controllable with foam/rope padding on the luff. Sailed to FP and back with a double headsail rig and it was a reasonable way to go with Hank on sails. Only had to make one headsail change to go from ghosting to survival conditions. But damn,mellowed curling is just so easy. Pull on a string and your troubles go away.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by roverhi

We caught water from our aft of the mast awning and didn't have to schlep water from shore for over the year we were in FP. 70 gallons would last us two months.

Wow, I was planning on 70 gallons per month just for myself.

And I was trying to be thrifty...

Here's the budget:

(all in gallons)

Use...........................................Per Day.............Per Month
Drinking.....................................1.... ..................30
Cooking.....................................0.25.. ................7.5
Brushing Teeth...........................0.125............. ....3.75
Showering (rinse only).................0.417.................12.51
Washing Hands (rinse only)...........0.125..................3.75
Laundry (rinse only, 1/week)........0.286...................8.58
Dishes (rinse only)......................0.125.................. 3.75
TOTAL......................................2.328.. .................69.84

Where am I overestimating?

Drinking water?

Roller furling headsail gear is pretty much fool proof from the major mfg's these days. Sail shape can be controllable with foam/rope padding on the luff. Sailed to FP and back with a double headsail rig and it was a reasonable way to go with Hank on sails. Only had to make one headsail change to go from ghosting to survival conditions. But damn,mellowed curling is just so easy. Pull on a string and your troubles go away.

It's something I want to experiment with.

...I expect I might have a hard time finding a charter with hank ons though.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by roverhi

We caught water from our awning aft of the mast awning and didn't have to schlep water from shore for over the year we were in FP. 70 gallons would last us two months.

But damn,mellowed curling is just so easy. Pull on a string and your troubles go away.

Don't you just love auto correct. How in hell did it get 'mellowed curling' from 'roller furling'

Would expect Baja and the Med. in the summer would be difficult to keep up with usage relying on catchment water. Whether you have 70 gallons or 105 gallons you are going to have find another source of water to fill the tanks. The Spring in the Med. is another story if this year is any indication. It's rained at sometime nearly everyday over the last 30 days.

[Kim Gregory]

KISS,
We sailed ( our Brewer 32 ) beside Earl and Gloria on their Goderich 35 ( Our Way II) to the Bahamas and back to Toronto Canada in 1982. Their previous trip took them to Europe, Bahamas, and back to Canada. They loved the boat, and were very confident in it.

One for sale (Canada $46,900) here: Kingston Yachts for Sale, New & Used Boat Sales, Powerboats & Sailboats - Kingston Yacht Sales

New York ($49,000)
Goderich sailboats for sale by owner.

More info from the designer: Sail Far Live Free - Relent to Water Wanderlust!: Question of the Month with Designer Ted Brewer (#3)

- Kim