Swing keel on a 42-50 footer

[Neeltje]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You could always build yourself a Waterwitch with lee boards.. no trunk in cabin, easy to maintain and you can beach/dry out..

At last, a practical solution! Who would have thought...

[PSea]

Surprised no one has mentioned Allures. Beautiful. Aluminum hull. Fiberglass topsides. Best of both worlds and not as expensive as a Southerly.


If I ever get "there, " it will be an Allures.

[ohthetrees]

Came here to mention Allures. My dream boat. You can get it either with a centerboard (all ballast inside hull, can be beached) or with a lifting keel (lifting keel itself is ballasted, can't be beached). The lifting keel version of the boat is lighter overall, because stability can be increased by putting the ballasted keel down, and is higher performance. The centerboard version has same stability up or down (minus negligible weight of the centerboard itself), but is a little heavier overall to compensate.

I think I'd get the centerboard version because I like the idea of drying out, and the mechanism is simpler. Tough decision though.

To the OP, I don't know why more boats don't have this option, it seems awesome to me!

[Elzaar]

Medved,

I never thought I wanted a centerboard boat until I bought one - Wauquiez Hood 38. Hood designed and built the Little Harbor 38 more or less on same design, same hull, etc. These are not swing keels as they have relatively little weight and no additional ballast. If you are looking for the flexibility of a liftable keel those boats would be a good starting place. My understanding is Hood was kind of passionate about the design advantages of a lifting keel and his boats won a lot of trophys.

Personally. Now that I own one it would take pretty specific reasons NOT to have it. Here in the PNW deep water and deep fin keels are prevalent, but so are crowded anchorages and light winds. I can anchor or pick up a mooring buoy in close where power boats only usually go and in light winds (especially downwind) I can ghost along board up when I dont think I would be able to move at all with a heavy, deep fin keel. Having said that, I am sure I would be reefing sooner than the hardcore racers do.

The ICW and Bahamas are also much friendlier with a 4'10" draft option. I dont know if I will ever get the chance, but dropping the mast also turns her in to a canal boat in Europe.

It was interesting to read the posts of people adjusting center of effort as I havent learned that, yet, but it sounds reasonable.

It's all trade offs.

[joebeach]

Originally Posted by real_goat

I have always thought that the difference between a swing keel and a centreboard is that one is ballasted (most of the time in the end) and the other one is not or only lightly.

If it's only used for pointing and reducing leeway I would classify it as a centreboard, If it's used for stability as a swing keel.

Agreed. That's the main distinction, at least in the US.

So for example, the adjustable keel Irwin has a keel/centerboard system, where an unballasted centerboard is retracted into a keel stub, which contains most of the boat's ballast and is located mostly or entirely below the hull.

The Southerlys, and other (often smaller) boats such as the Catalina 25, have a swing keel system in which the swing keel itself contains most of the boat's ballast. When retracted, a swing heel rests in a housing located mostly or entirely inside the hull, whether in the bilges, cockpit, salon, or sometimes extending partially into each.

Both keel/centerboard and swing keel systems are operated through a dedicated line attached to the mid or aft part of the adjustable keel, and rotate on a pin in the forward section of the adjustable keel. The other end of the dedicated line is wrapped around a dedicated crank or winch in the cockpit or salon. Both types adjustable keels when extended are usually curved or angled fore to aft, and so will often swing back and ride over many rocks/bottom obstacles, though the centerboard due to its much lighter weight usually does so more readily than a heavy swing keel. Some centerboards when fully lowered can be vertical (perpendicular to the hull) or nearly so, and that can adversely affect their ability to adjust to the bottom without damage to the keel mechanism or the hull.

Both systems have the advantage of adjusting draft to differing water conditions and points of sail, and are most useful in shallow or shoaling waters, and in harbors with large tidal variations, but at the cost of additional complexity and maintenance.

The keel/centerboard systems do have a tendency to foul in the keelstub over time and thus become difficult to operate, and can be difficult to access for cleaning. Sometimes the dedicated keel line will hum or sing while underway, and the centerboard can slap against the inside of its housing when it's retracted and the boat is at rest. Swing keels have fewer of such problems, though for smaller boats when broaching or turtling an extended swing keel may suddenly retract and smash through the hull.

These systems are both distinguishable from a daggerboard keel system, used in many racing dinghies, which has a vertical keelboard pulled up manually through a slot in the hull and into the cockpit.

And of course there are more recent variations of adjustable keels, such as canting keels, lifting keels with bulbs, etc.

While I have never sailed on a Southerly, which I understand is made (or was made) in the UK, my understanding is that its swing keel system is quite well designed to the point of being nearly bulletproof.

[jas]

Have a Wellington 44 with centerboard that swings down to about 45 degrees aft of center. Rides easy there and cable pulls it up when not needed. Recently overhauled by replacing S/S retract pendant since it was almost worn through after almost 30 years. Draws 4' 3" board up and 8'8" down. Great for the cutter rig. 5 ton ballast, 14 ton displacement.

[thomaswahl]

I would have to agree with the Southerly 110 owner. I have a Southerly 105 which is almost necessary in Florida where I live. A lot of skinny water. The keel can be in any position so desired by conditions, the keel is 1 ton and the grounding plate that surrounds the keel weighs 2 tons, it also houses the substantial hinge pin, and is designed to handle the impact of grounding on a beach or tidal area. The boat does not flop over. Plus the sailing characteristic are extremely good. My boat has already done a crossing from England to Florida. A testament to its construction, and design. I would recommend this boat to anyone who likes to sail in Florida and the Bahama waters. A proud owner.

[JeanF73]

Pictures are worth a 1000 words!

[Username25]

Originally Posted by DIJ

the consequent lack of prop wash does make low speed manoeuvring in reverse a problem

I know this too well with 4.50m beam

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by JeanF73

Pictures are worth a 1000 words!

Good thing she's aground, 'cause that anchor isn't well set!

Jim

[JeanF73]

Well enough for this with a little more scope though.

[JeanF73]

Seems that the OVNI by Alubat have been ignored

[Fore and Aft]

Thats what we do on our yacht as well JeanF73. Except you will find two young kids playing on the sand as well.
We also have a Y valve fitted to the toilet hand basin so when "Beached Az" we can fill the hand basin with fresh water and use that as the water to flush our toilet. Works well and saves any one getting caught short.
Cheers

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Good thing she's aground, 'cause that anchor isn't well set!

Jim

Hmmm, perhaps a failed attempt at trying to kedge off, I am surmising.

Good thing she's got a wide beam and a rounded bottom with no deeply hung keel to need to be drag through the muck.

Makes for a fine muckboat, setting on her smooth bottom. But why is she not flying a Gin Flag to invite guests over for a libations and to join a bottom scraping party?

[Dukethedog]

This thread has been interesting reading with all of the points of view and of course some mis-information. For what it is worth, I sail a Little Harbor 54 with a centerboard in the Chesapeake Bay. I find it the perfect balance of deep keep performance upwind while in the deeper parts of the bay, and 6' draft with the board up for the shallow areas. The one piece I don't like about the Ted Hood design is that the board does not retract completely up- it protrudes down about 6" at the trailing edge of the keel. No biggie except to when you have the boat hauled out. If the people place the sling on the centerboard and not right behind it, it can damage the plate/cable attachment point. I am really careful in having the hoist points marked as well as providing pictures of the hull before they start. Don't ask how I learned this!