Swing keel on a 42-50 footer

[stewie]

So long as you do not mind if the keel on your boat goes clunk, clunk, clunk at anchor, they are fine.

[grahamj]

Originally Posted by stewie

So long as you do not mind if the keel on your boat goes clunk, clunk, clunk at anchor, they are fine.

And yet, with a Southerly, at anchor the keel is locked in the up position. The sound you hear is the lapping of the waves. Not a clunk to be heard.

Why do people who have no idea post this stuff?

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by grahamj

I own a Southerly 110. Utter nonsense. The keel can be any position, any time, sailing or motoring.

It affects leeway but not stability.

Good grief!

Why would you post this?



There is a significant loss of space. It's a big keel.

The downside is cost and the space. Other variable keels might have an issue but not Southerly's.

Why do people who have no idea post rubbish?

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[real_goat]

The statement that the retraction of a swing keel doesn’t affect stability is utter nonsense. This is just not possible.

“Both the S110 and the RS 35 ("I'd choose the interior of the 110 with the rig of RS 35," Humphreys told us) share some of the same characteristics: They have positive righting moments (keel down) to a remarkable 150°, for instance. The boat's high ballast/displacement ratio plus the form stability derived from her virtually flat-bottomed midsection make her very stiff as well. When the keel is extended to its full 7' 2", the righting arm achieved gives her remarkable sail-carrying capacity. Still, when the keel is retracted fully, her generous ballast gives the S110 stability that is remarkably close to that of a conventional fin keeler.”

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...10_5195-1.html

Originally Posted by grahamj

I own a Southerly 110. Utter nonsense. The keel can be any position, any time, sailing or motoring.

It affects leeway but not stability.

Good grief!

Why would you post this?



There is a significant loss of space. It's a big keel.

The downside is cost and the space. Other variable keels might have an issue but not Southerly's.

Why do people who have no idea post rubbish?

[grahamj]

Originally Posted by real_goat

The statement that the retraction of a swing keel doesn’t affect stability is utter nonsense. This is just not possible.

And yet, when I am sailing upwind, or on a beam reach, with the keel fully up, the boat has less heel.

Why, as a starter for 10 points, do you think that might be?

[DIJ]

Originally Posted by Username25

- The keel is only fully up or fully down. Sailing only with the keel in fully down position.
- Loss of inside space due to keel box.
- Running aground auto-releases the keel.
- Longer keel = more powerful rig, maybe.

Having to be fully up or fully down is not relevant to Southerlys - anything in between is possible - I sail mine downwind with it mostly up, beached with it fully up otherwise all the way down - hydraulically adjustable. It’s important to note that the solid steel grounding plate around the keel provides considerable ballast. Most boat features have compromises and the lifting/swing keel on the Southerly is an example - to be able to beach the boat the rudder on older versions sits quite high and its position makes it less efficient and is inclined to lose grip when well-heeled, later versions have twin rudders at angles which solves that problem though the consequent lack of prop wash does make low speed manoeuvring in reverse a problem. As for taking up internal space Southerlys do a great job of hiding its presence though of course it has to take up some space.

[DIJ]

Originally Posted by DIJ

Having to be fully up or fully down is not relevant to Southerlys - anything in between is possible - I sail mine downwind with it mostly up, beached with it fully up otherwise all the way down - hydraulically adjustable. It’s important to note that the solid steel grounding plate around the keel provides considerable ballast. Most boat features have compromises and the lifting/swing keel on the Southerly is an example - to be able to beach the boat the rudder on older versions sits quite high and its position makes it less efficient and is inclined to lose grip when well-heeled, later versions have twin rudders at angles which solves that problem though the consequent lack of prop wash does make low speed manoeuvring in reverse a problem. As for taking up internal space Southerlys do a great job of hiding its presence though of course it has to take up some space.

.. and also it doesn’t auto release the keel on grounding.

[DIJ]

Originally Posted by grahamj

And yet, with a Southerly, at anchor the keel is locked in the up position. The sound you hear is the lapping of the waves. Not a clunk to be heard.

Why do people who have no idea post this stuff?

Sooo true!

[Montanan]

Some Irwin yachts utilized swing keels inside their long keels. And because the swing portion was located inside the long keel it did not protrude up into the hull space / salon.

I own three sailboats the middle sized one is a trailerable MacGregor 25 and I love its swing keel not just for ease of trailering but also I raise it when motoring when there is no wind and the water surface is calm and not needing athwartship stability, and when running downwind and best of all to enter shallow areas and to beach. Sometimes I don't set the bolt through the swing keel when it is lowered all the way down and instead let the keel become my grounding bumper, if the keel touches / BASHES into an obstacle, it just rides backwards, kind of abruptly slowing the boat but will glide over an impediment or simply stop you from going too far into a shallow area. Then one just raises the keel a bit further and either backs off or continues with a shallower draft. By way of example, the depth of draft changes from about 6 feet to just 21 inches when the keel is raised. The Mac also has a swinging rudder else the rudder would be 4O+ inches down and thus become the grounding bumper with the keel raised, the rudder so not being a good contact point for when you are navigating by braille.

My larger boat doesn't have a swing keel, but sure wish it did. And my baby boat is a 18 foot Hobie trimaran with a swing dagger board and a swing lifting rudder, truly great for beaching on Alpine lakes and again for ease of trailering and placing into and out of shallow water of beaches or boat ramps.

Reference an example of an Irwin with a swing keel. Shoal draft keel, 5 feet 9 inches, but with the swing keel down fully, 14 feet, six inches. When the keel is down the pointing ability is enhanced fairly significantly, albeit the Irwins are not really close pointing boats.

http://www.irwinyachts.com/Centercoc...ochure%201.jpg

[Montanan]

With a swing keel, one can adjust the center of lateral resistance for and aft and one can also shift the center of gravity for and aft which allows one great flexibility of adjusting weather helm or lee helm. Stability and performance being more than just about heel angle. Any desired angle of swing can be accomplished from all the way down to all the way up and everything in between. I never hear any clunking of the keel shifting about in any position it is set.

There also typically being much less forward resistance when the swing keel is raised appreciably, especially in light winds, heading down wind or motoring in smooth conditions. When the keel is raised the boat tends to roll considerably quicker and with greater amplitude because of the lesser lever arm of counter weight and the diminished lateral resistance, so when we are in swells or waves the first thing we do is lower the swing keel when leaving the marina if the conditions warrant such or we intend to sail in a reach or on beam and need to stabilize the boat and reduce leeway from the side load of the propulsive forces of the wind.

I have also found the swing keel very convenient in being able to easily discard entanglements in long grasses and floating ropes that can hang up on a deep, non-angled keel or a bulb or winged keel.

[real_goat]

AVS of a Pogo 12.50, with swing keel up and down.
I am quite sure that the difference is not that big in a Southerly, but it’s still there.

https://imgur.com/ABDzLby

[sand6000]

The inside of the slot where the keel lives will gather growth and not on impossible to get at but you cannot get in there to antifoul. I have experienced this on a yacht I had once.

[real_goat]

Originally Posted by Medved

Was watching Distant Shores talking about their new Southerly 48 and highlighting swing keel and ability to beach the boat as a great feature.

And always keep in mind that the “famous” vloggers get discounts for raving about their boat. Discovery even calls it a marketing discount, which was a bit more than £60k for Distant Shores. Their base order value was therefore £170k below the current price for a 480 (2017 vs 2019).

[grahamj]

Originally Posted by real_goat

And always keep in mind that the “famous” vloggers get discounts for raving about their boat. Discovery even calls it a marketing discount, which was a bit more than £60k for Distant Shores. Their base order value was therefore £170k below the current price for a 480 (2017 vs 2019).

The OP asked about swing keels: "Anyone has any insight as to why this is not more wide spread?"

Is the marketing budget of Discovery relevant?

[real_goat]

Originally Posted by grahamj

The OP asked about swing keels: "Anyone has any insight as to why this is not more wide spread?"

Is the marketing budget of Discovery relevant?

I Just put it into context. Swing keels / centreboards / lifting keels are interesting, but boat design is full of compromises - there is no free lunch.

I don’t think a price comparison is out of order, because the increasing costs are certainly a disadvantage of those systems.
Maybe this was offset for Distant Shores by the discount they received