Survey or not to survey

[Exctyengr]

You have already received some sound advice; advice that I would second by the way. But you might want to review Marine Survey 101 by Port Credit Marine for some extensive tips on a pre-survey inspection, Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection
Good luck with your venture.

[CassidyNZ]

I’ve always found that surveyors have the most complete set of disclaimers known to man built into their reports. I guess historical events of litigation for really important stuff that got missed and subsequently failed has a part to play in this.

Still, I get the report done anyway - it gives one a (perhaps mis-directed) peace of mind.

[C Paton-Gay]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

For those of us who are British citizens the whole Brexit debacle is becoming a real pain in the a**e especially around the issue of VAT. I will be shortly retiring and am fortunate enough to be able to afford a new boat which I was planning to purchase in the UK and then sail to the Med. With the potential of a double VAT whammy, which I wont go into, I am now thinking of buying a nearly new boat already in the Med and have found a used vessel which is perfect for my requirements and looks like a good buy with all the benefits of being in the Med when we exit.

Also a big plus is someone has already gone through all the commissioning issues and niggles you read so much about on these forums and from friends personal experiences when buying new.

My question is to survey or not to survey? Given the boat in question is only a few years old (2017), seems to have been very well cared for, lightly used (very low engine hours) and spends the winter on the hard under cover, would you bother with a survey?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

I would NEVER BUY A Vessel of any size without a survey even with their disclaimers. Have you considered registering your vessel in Panama, BVI or Cypress?

[Snore]

Let me add my loudly add my voice SURVEY!!

As a delivery guy, I would not move about outside the sight of land without one. If it was a serious crossing, or if I was buying the boat, I would investigate the surveyor to make sure (s)he was good.

[duetto]

Yes to survey. Some marinas want a recent survey before they'll let you in.

[boatpoker]

I've surveyed thousands of boats and 3 or 4 times per year I get asked to survey a brand new boat. I find almost as much wrong with most of them as 15yr. old boats and they've yet to see water.

[GWilly]

Yes, absolutely survey. Especially the engine, if it has low hours. I bought a boat with a low hour engine, and in a year it imploded because of a lack of use. Some inner seals had dried out, cracked, water got into the cylinders. A total mess. So low hours should be ringing alarm bells! Absolutely survey!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

For those of us who are British citizens the whole Brexit debacle is becoming a real pain in the a**e especially around the issue of VAT. I will be shortly retiring and am fortunate enough to be able to afford a new boat which I was planning to purchase in the UK and then sail to the Med. With the potential of a double VAT whammy, which I wont go into, I am now thinking of buying a nearly new boat already in the Med and have found a used vessel which is perfect for my requirements and looks like a good buy with all the benefits of being in the Med when we exit.

Also a big plus is someone has already gone through all the commissioning issues and niggles you read so much about on these forums and from friends personal experiences when buying new.

My question is to survey or not to survey? Given the boat in question is only a few years old (2017), seems to have been very well cared for, lightly used (very low engine hours) and spends the winter on the hard under cover, would you bother with a survey?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

If you're considering buying a used boat (even a relatively new one) in a remote, to you, locale, you should plan on spending some time there to view the boat yourself - start here Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

You should get a survey done but finding a good surveyor is the tricky oart. You should be able to do a lot of the initial investigation at home. Start with a big list and narrow it down based on recommendations and surveyor availabilty ( some of the best ones are booked months in advance) Once you have a concise list, you'll need to interview each one to ensure both of you are on the same page regarding the scope of the survey (the more detailed the better) Do not use the brokers surveyor under any circumstance and be there while the survey is being done.

[Haddock1]

Thanks all, so the overwhelming response is to get a survey. To put the vessel in context this is a large(ish) yacht 56 foot, and regularly maintained engine/gen service each year (documented), lifted each year covered and stored, maintained locally but owner lives in UK. This was the original purchaser and the same broker who sold the boat new is now selling her again and is familiar with the history. Also the current owner is buying another boat from him (smaller) to sail in UK waters so I guess this is a thumbs up to him. I have the original order form and all the history for the vessel. I am reasonably competent but have a brother who knows his onions and we plan to fly out (sod the quarantine on return) to give it an initial once over before seeking a qualified surveyor. Thanks for the pre-inspection report, most useful and thank you all for your sage advice.

[George DuBose]

Whoever insures your boat wherever it is, should be able to recommend a surveyor to their satisfaction.

When I bought Skylark, sight unseen on eBay, I asked my insurance company, Boat/US to recommend a surveyor. I took their recommendation.

I felt that the surveyor did a reasonable job, recommending that I NOT buy that boat. He offered to reduce his fee if I didn't require him to file a full report.

I wanted a Pearson 36-1. The Yanmar that replaced the Atomic 4 only had 100 hours and the "defects" the surveyor reported were non-functioning antique electronics that were going to be replaced anyway and leaking chainplates.

As I was planning a complete refit and rewiring of the boat, the defects were not a great concern.

As it turned out, Skylark had indeed had some "bumps" along the way and there was the usual "smile" between the lead and the keel stub, but the deep and narrow bilge had a slow leak from its aft end. This was caused by poor layup during the manufacturing causing voids in the layers and the keel was so narrow at the aft end, it was a weak point. Extensive surgery and a new floor has solved this problem.

About surveyors in general, you do have to have one knowledgable about sailboats. The survey before my purchase survey listed the fuel tank as aluminum, but a look at it would tell one that aluminum doesn't have a green patina and a look at the original Pearson brochure, one would learn that the fuel tank is MONEL...

[psp2psp2]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

For those of us who are British citizens the whole Brexit debacle is becoming a real pain in the a**e especially around the issue of VAT. I will be shortly retiring and am fortunate enough to be able to afford a new boat which I was planning to purchase in the UK and then sail to the Med. With the potential of a double VAT whammy, which I wont go into, I am now thinking of buying a nearly new boat already in the Med and have found a used vessel which is perfect for my requirements and looks like a good buy with all the benefits of being in the Med when we exit.

Also a big plus is someone has already gone through all the commissioning issues and niggles you read so much about on these forums and from friends personal experiences when buying new.

My question is to survey or not to survey? Given the boat in question is only a few years old (2017), seems to have been very well cared for, lightly used (very low engine hours) and spends the winter on the hard under cover, would you bother with a survey?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

I can think of one thousand reasons why a survey is a necessity. Here’s a quick anecdotal one . . . ,

A friend who is knowledgeable about boats found a catamaran he liked in Greece. The owner was selling because he was getting too old to enjoy it much. It was two years old and lightly used. My friend inspected the cat himself and decided to forgo a survey. A deal was agreed.

During the first year under new ownership, several problems surfaced. (I can’t recall all of them, but both engines needed extensive rebuilds.)

While sorting out these troubles, my pal asked a rigging expert in Lavrion to give him a quote for some work. The rigger looked at the catamaran, read the HIN number and said something like, “Wow, they did a pretty good job on restoring this, I remember when it was sunk and looked like a total loss!”

Caveat emptor Mike

myageofsail.com

[yesthatsue]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

My question is to survey or not to survey? Given the boat in question is only a few years old (2017), seems to have been very well cared for, lightly used (very low engine hours) and spends the winter on the hard under cover, would you bother with a survey?

The only boat I wouldn't survey would be one cheap enough that the cost of the survey would be such a big fraction of the purchase price as to never be cost-effective. We bought our previous boat for the equivalent of $2000 US; there's no way that we would ever have managed to justify the cost of a survey plus a haulout down in that range. For the very cheap twentysomething foot boats, a copy of "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" and a couple of simple tools is a more cost-effective option.

For any boat outside that low end, absolutely survey it.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Another Forum Member was looking at a boat recently and the survey revealed that all the thruhulls were good - but one.

It depends upon your own experience and confidence in yourself. Any experienced sailor will quickly discover problems with seacocks and throughhulls.
I hired "the best" surveyor in Seattle, recommended by John Neal and two yacht brokers - and the surveyor missed every problem and got every dimension wrong. (36' instead of 45' LOA. Even anchor rode was incorrect chain size.) So hiring a good surveyor is sometimes a waste of time, effort, and funds.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by KP44

It depends upon your own experience and confidence in yourself. Any experienced sailor will quickly discover problems with seacocks and throughhulls.
I hired "the best" surveyor in Seattle, recommended by John Neal and two yacht brokers - and the surveyor missed every problem and got every dimension wrong. (36' instead of 45' LOA. Even anchor rode was incorrect chain size.) So hiring a good surveyor is sometimes a waste of time, effort, and funds.

A lot of this is just innocent mistakes (thought that doesn't make them completely excusable). Most use a template in which the fields are pre-populated with 'examples', or they use the previous survey as a template. They then sometimes forget to update a section. If you've been in good communication with the surveyor throughout and immediately after the survey you can easily catch these.

I had one of the best local Yanmar shops in the area survey my engine. During and after the survey during our discussion he raved about the condition of the engine. When I got the report it said "Rear seal leaking, needs replacement".

When I called to ask about it, he reviewed it and confirmed there was no leak, it should have been removed from the template. People are human.

[rick bertram]

Pictures always look good. It could have been on the bottom too from a recent hurricane. Do the survey.