Suggestions on a beginner sailboat

[campuscab]

Originally Posted by sealubber

So you think before buying a boat he should not first learn how to sail?

The OP is asking about buying boats off of ebay after hearing bad things about it?

I'm not being insulting I'm speaking truth. If the OP came and asked me this in person I'd say the same thing.

Go get training on first how to sail and maintain a boat then buy one. The title of this thread was "Suggestions for a Beginner" That is my suggestion.

How "knowledgeable" do you need to be before buying a trailer sailor? Maybe you should suggest to him to go buy a MacGregor 26

Statements like you made above are what deepens the pockets of 2nd and 3rd hand buyers. (Oh lets just buy a boat and we know nothing about boats but that's okay we'll complain we want more money on resell because we waxed it twice in 3 years and had our local car mechanic fix the engine. And we also added a watermaker because we like showers. Come on, people need to get educated before jumping into owning something that goes in the worlds harshest environment. Trailor sailor or 150 yacht.

I am in the middle on this one. I started after reading sailing books. Then I rented a few boats and bought a sunfish. No lessons because they were more than my boat. I have been I clubs this year and I am learning more every week by both talking and sailing.
As far as ebay there are deals If you know what to look for and can do some basic work. But there can be deals around the marinas. This fall in Detroit a 22 Santana went for $250, an 28 Abbott went for$1,000, and an Irwin with surveys, appraised at 12k went for 4k.
I paid more for my laser than I did my cal20.
So I am not saying lessons are bad but there are many ways to sail. I would suggest sailing on other's boats and getting a feel first but some lessons are only learned by owning a boat.
I still get amazed at the amount of retirees sell everything, by an expensive boat and cannot repair anything.
I had a crack in my gel coat they wanted 1700 to fix that I did for under 50. A cheap trailer boat CAB be a good learning tool.



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[cal40john]

I learned how to sail in a club and I think it's a great way to start, if you have that option available to you. I had lessons, got to sail somewhere around 15 different dinghies and a few keelboats before I ever started to think about my own boat. I had a much better idea of what kind of sailing and so what kind of boat I was interested in with the club background.

I haven't sailed the Catalina or Hunter 22 so don't have an opinion between the two. I've sailed our club's J22, great fun boat, but nearly a 4' keel, not a swing keel, so ramp trailering is a problem. Much more of a racy design, more sail area per weight. Narrow waterline beam, so probably will initially heel more than the others. Less cabin accommodations if you're planning on overnight camp cruising. I think the J22 is a better daysailor/ racer, more excitement kind of boat than the other two. But I don't think it's necessarily too much for a beginner as schools use them to teach with.

[La Porte Rouge]

Either of those 22s would be good starter boats as long as you're sailing in protected waters. You didn't say if you were looking for something you could just sail or if you are looking for a fixerupper, but all boats require maintenance, so if you're not handy at doing a multitude of miscellaneous things that you've never done before, it could get pricey if you have to pay someone. I've bought and sold several boats in this size range and learned a lot and had a ton of fun! Go for it and enjoy!

[Teknav]

I learned sailing decades ago, by reading books and by attending the Coast Guard Auxiliary's neighborhood classes; Chapman's, an over-kill, was my first sailing book. I started practicing on a Sunfish which I rented by the day. Then I progressed to a 23 footer Rainbow sloop, then on a 37 footer O'Day; including several hands-on sailing courses along the way. It took me a while, then I progressed to sailing a Gulfstar 50 footer twin-masted ketch. A few years later, I started flying a float plane...and never looked back!

Now you have a condensed story from the time I was a beginner. Take your time when choosing a boat. Your seamanship knowledge should include BOTH reading AND hands-on sailing. Keep us posted! Good luck!

Mauritz

[letsgetsailing3]

Jump all over the one that you like the best, that's in the best condition, for the price you want to pay.

You'll enjoy any of them, because sailing is fun.

[Zeb]

Honestly, either one will probably be fine boats to begin on so it really comes down to a matter of preference. Search out one of the suggested self survey lists that these guys have posted on here a thousand times, pay cash for the boat and go sail. If you have never sailed, perhaps take a 101 class and learn the basics, but mostly get out there and do it.

- Zeb

[Stevediveski]

While we're on th e topic. I'm a newbie too. I've been trying to get some sailing experience by crewing but havent had any luck so far. I'm getting rather disheartened waiting for my sailing to happen and I was considering buying my own boat so I wasn't reliant on others. But I would probably make a bad decision and do my dosh. So what is a guy supposed to do?

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by Stevediveski

While we're on th e topic. I'm a newbie too. I've been trying to get some sailing experience by crewing but havent had any luck so far. I'm getting rather disheartened waiting for my sailing to happen and I was considering buying my own boat so I wasn't reliant on others. But I would probably make a bad decision and do my dosh. So what is a guy supposed to do?

I don't know your location and I'm sure it is a pain to have your sailing dependent on others. If you found a local yacht club to join that would open doors or maybe if available in your area join a local sailing forum. Yahoo groups have many region specific groups where you can network with people that sail regularly. Obviously if there is a local dingy racing program or sailing center that also has cruising boats that could be a good place to start.

Also never feel awkward walking your local docks and introducing yourself. As I've stated before I've never turned away people that introduced themselves to me and wanted to talk about sailing. If I'm not going out that day I'm usually happy to exchange numbers and emails with people and let them know the next time I will be. Most of the people I know in my marina are the same way.

Obviously etiquette is to offer something in exchange like help cleaning or bringing the drinks and food. You'd be surprised how much sailing a few cases a beer can get you.

Depending on if you have a career or not you could save up some money and spend a few months crewing or even maybe find a delivery captain and making yourself known that you can mate.

You could do all the things above for a fraction of what you'd pay to buy and maintain a boat. After a few seasons that might give you a good idea of what you want get for yourself.

[Teknav]

Hiya Steve! Check you local chapter of US Power Squadron or the US Coast Guard Auxiliary! These non-profit organizations offer seamanship classes for the cost of their publications. They also are knowledgeable about what's locally available for hands-on training and such. Contact them for information! They will steer you on the right path. There are a couple of books on sailing published by ASA you need to purchase and "digest"; sold on Amazon. Get started with these. Let's know how you're doing. Good luck!

Mauritz

[Nicholson58]

Anyone looking for a boat I always suggest a look at Great Lakes inventory. Fresh water means no rust. Our short season means boats are lightly used on nice weekends about three months/year (or less). A well cared for older boat may be like new. The brokerage listings at Torresens where we keep our boat include photos and many of the boats in your size range are on trailers. Other yacht basins around the lake have boats as a result of our crappy economy. If you can come to the area I would suggest you call yacht basins & yacht clubs & set up a touring list. Take a car tour around the promising locations. OR - pick a nice one and go.

If the boat you like is without a trailer they can find one for you. I wouldn't let that be your decider.

There is a 1978 25 O'Day stored indoors at the owner's barn - add a trailer. Looks like a nice vessel for 5900 asking.


Torresen Marine, Inc. - The Sailboat Specialists (Muskegon, MI)

[Lake-Effect]

(Nice to see the trailer-sailor love on the 1st page of this thread )

RE small boats - well we're going into year 8 with a 19' ft micro cruiser and still loving it. It's more stable and drier than a dinghy, yet still nimble and rewarding to sail, so a great choice if you're doing alot of daysailing, or want to grab a couple of hours on the water after work. We sail her on Lake Ontario and I've been out in up to 25 kt and still felt safe. We spend at least a couple long weekends a year "cruising" in the boat. Every year we trailer her somewhere new, like one of the many awesome cottage lakes, which is something you can't do as easily or at all with a larger boat. And you can own and maintain them for a song. I estimate the all-in cost of our boating is less than smoking a pack a day.

I believe that it's best for beginners to take some sailing lessons from a good club or school. I was experienced before we got ours. That being said... do I believe that a beginner could buy a smaller sailboat (22 ft or smaller) and get comfortable with it fairly quickly?... Yes, I do, if the person is keen, safety-conscious, and has someone around to show them the ropes and accompany them for the first few sails.

What boat? There's lots of choice. The ones I like:
- Sandpiper 565 (ours, had to get a plug in )
- West Wight Potter 19' - also nice but a tad overrated in my opinion. Our boat went for about half what a used WWP 19 goes for, but I think we can sail circles around it.
- Catalina 22
- Precision 21
- Tanzer 22 - funny-looking, but reputedly one of the fastest best-pointing in the 22 range. And dirt cheap, usually
- O'Day 23
- Halman 20 (Nordica 20) - beefy little cruisers. Not as fast as the above but very stable and meant for ocean

Any to avoid?
- Matilda 20. A friend had one, and it's got nice accommodations for a 20, but what a pig in the water! No fun to sail
- MacGregor 26m or 26x - not to start a holy war, but they aren't much fun to sail OR motor, in my opinion. They have really great accommodations for a 26. So my advice is that they're a lousy first boat and a poor daysailor, but once you have experience on another boat, and you think you want a Mac 26 as a cheap motorsailor... try it out before laying out the cash.

I strongly recommend researching small cruisers (one place to start) and looking for owners' groups and opinions, and find out what is popular in your area.

[satdiver]

I don't know if this boat is trailerable but one of the coolest pocket cruisers I've ever sailed on was a friends Dana 24. If I were 10 years younger I'd try crossing an ocean in that thing.

[Stevediveski]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Hiya Steve! Check you local chapter of US Power Squadron or the US Coast Guard Auxiliary! These non-profit organizations offer seamanship classes for the cost of their publications. They also are knowledgeable about what's locally available for hands-on training and such. Contact them for information! They will steer you on the right path. There are a couple of books on sailing published by ASA you need to purchase and "digest"; sold on Amazon. Get started with these. Let's know how you're doing. Good luck!

Mauritz

Sorry I probably should have mentioned that I live in Brisbane, Australia. But thanks anyway for the advice. I may just have to go to the States as boats and cost of living is so much cheaper there than here. Australia is one of the most expensive counties in the world. It absolutely nuts!
Steve

[Teknav]

Hiya Steve! A few years ago, I stayed at the Sheraton Brisbane; a great hotel. I was on my way for a couple weeks of diving off Heron Island. My wife and I could never get enough of Australia.

The US market place is much cheaper than Australia's. Have fun while shopping around!

Mauritz

[happyboatguy]

I want to thank everyone for thier thoughs and opinions. Have been much informed as well as learned whos opinion to stay away from. Thank you yall.