Stern poles: ugly, functional, or both?

[Jammer]

Many of the brokerage boats I've looked at online have a stern pole. Usually it has the radar, some other small antennas, and an outboard motor crane for the dink. Some have lights. Some have the loudhailer. Some have a wind generator.


I guess I subscribe to the school of thought that visual design matters, and I don't especially like the way they look.


Are there other ways to get things done, or is the stern pole a necessary evil?


If you bought a boat that already had one, would you keep it?

[AiniA]

I think you need to go through all the functions of the pole and figure out how to best do them without a pole. I think you might find it a difficult task and come realize why such poles are so common.

[cj88]

Work out what you need to mount first and then consider the options. Does the item need to be temporarily or permanently mounted? Top of the mast? Mid mast? What happens if you lose your rigging? Is it needed at anchor, underway or both? Are you having an arch, a dodger or bimini?

[billknny]

I share your enthusiasm for the esthetic of the boat. Poles on the stern are usually an uncreative solution to a set of problems.

The loud hailer and radar belong on the mast.

Frequently, the main or mizzen boom actually makes a far better crane for the outboard that the dinky little things sold as dedicated units.

There are almost always better places to put antennas and lights.

All that said, sometimes the function drives the need. We needed a place to put solar panels, and ended up with an arch being the best solution. I think it is more useful and attractive than a pole on the quarter, but that is a matter of opinion.

[Jammer]

[crossposted]


The radar can go on the mast, and I do not believe a wind generator is necessary for the cruising I have planned.


If I accept the received wisdom and get a RIB with a big outboard, are there other reasonable choices for hoisting it?


Are there other reasons a stern pole is necessary?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by billknny

Frequently, the main or mizzen boom actually makes a far better crane for the outboard that the dinky little things sold as dedicated units.

I'm trying to figure out where the outboard then goes. Most sailboats that keep a RIB on the foredeck seem to keep the outboard on the taffrail. The boom for the main (I'm not looking at ketches) won't reach.


I want to be a fan of smaller outboards that I can lift with one hand (e.g. 3hp), but the received wisdom is that I am a fool in this regard and need to get with the times and think in terms of a 15 hp Enduro.

[rbk]

We have a pole and it is an easy solution for mounting limited items. I prefer to keep the mast relatively clean and having the radareasiky accessible is a big plus. That said I’d prefer an arch to get the solar off the stern rails, mount. Radar and wind. I think the pole is a cleaner look than an arch but an arch is more functional.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Many of the brokerage boats I've looked at online have a stern pole. Usually it has the radar, some other small antennas, and an outboard motor crane for the dink. Some have lights. Some have the loudhailer. Some have a wind generator.


I guess I subscribe to the school of thought that visual design matters, and I don't especially like the way they look.

You can always put the Radar up the mast where you take the performance hit for more weight and windage in the rigging, along with sail chafe.

Are there other ways to get things done, or is the stern pole a necessary evil?


If you bought a boat that already had one, would you keep it?

Of course it isn't necessary. I added one to my previous boat to remove the radar from the mast and my current boat came with one. No windgen on either one.

[Tillsbury]

A "RIB with a big outboard" is only received wisdom if that's what you want for the sort of cruising you're doing. Some would find it way too hard to launch and retrieve and more trouble than it's worth.

If you want aesthetics and good sailing ability, then a large RIB with outboard hanging off the boat is pretty much a non-starter. Depends on where you place your priorities.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

A "RIB with a big outboard" is only received wisdom if that's what you want for the sort of cruising you're doing. Some would find it way too hard to launch and retrieve and more trouble than it's worth.

If you want aesthetics and good sailing ability, then a large RIB with outboard hanging off the boat is pretty much a non-starter. Depends on where you place your priorities.

Well, in the dinghy thread, there were two people who had switched from RIBs to nesting dinks and were happy with the change. There were two (you and one other) who were building nesting boats but had not tried them yet. There were a variety of posters who had small (8-10') one-piece rigid dinks, which will not work for me for capacity reasons, and a few people who had boats that were RIB like but had either foam-filled sponsons or plastic sponsons that do not deflate. There were also a number of people who had porta-botes which I have concluded do not meet our requirements.


The vast majority of posters had RIBs, or had HP floor inflatables, with 6hp or larger motors. Some of them had switched from hard dinks.


I have Danny Greene's plans for "Chameleon" sitting on my coffee table and I am trying to decide what I'm going to do with them once I finish my current boatbuilding project.


Even if I proceed with it, I believe that I have to be prepared for the possibility that it may not meet our needs, or at least that it may not meet our needs for all of the journeys I am contemplating.

[Jim Cate]

Jammer, we've been lifting our 15 hp outboards with the main halyard for many years. We bring the dink alongside amidships, I shackle the lifting sling (that i made from nylon webbing) on to the halyard, we winch it up about a foot and then I walk it back to the stern and as I aim it over a mount, Ann lowers it a few inches and it sets into place. Takes a couple of minutes, uses no equipment not already in place and I can still manage it at 81. Reversing the process to mount it on the dink... which can be a bit adventurous if a big chop is running... is pretty easy as well. Lift it off the mount, walk back to where it hangs docilely, climb down into the boat and set it on the transom.

Been doing this since 1985, and haven't dropped it yet!

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Jammer, we've been lifting our 15 hp outboards with the main halyard for many years. We bring the dink alongside amidships, I shackle the lifting sling (that i made from nylon webbing) on to the halyard, we winch it up about a foot and then I walk it back to the stern and as I aim it over a mount, Ann lowers it a few inches and it sets into place. Takes a couple of minutes, uses no equipment not already in place and I can still manage it at 81. Reversing the process to mount it on the dink... which can be a bit adventurous if a big chop is running... is pretty easy as well. Lift it off the mount, walk back to where it hangs docilely, climb down into the boat and set it on the transom.

Been doing this since 1985, and haven't dropped it yet!

Jim

Dinghy? Halyard? Methinks , Young Jim, that you are growing soft and lazy...

Outboard? Real sailors row....

Back on track...
Yes I have a pole... wouldn't have one of those other things in a purple fit.... windage for one thing, UAF for another...

Lots less to lose when your mast falls down for yet another...

Radar reflector down low?... less fresnel effect.... works for the Port Phillip pilot boats... works for me...

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I'm trying to figure out where the outboard then goes. Most sailboats that keep a RIB on the foredeck seem to keep the outboard on the taffrail. The boom for the main (I'm not looking at ketches) won't reach.

I would be surprised if you can get even a small rib on a 25ft yacht foredeck securely without the sheets fouling underway or making anchoring difficult. We can't, so deflate the inflatable and store it just infront of the mast lashed down. We have just enough room to inflate a 2.7m it on the foredeck once the the anchor is deployed.

Originally Posted by Jammer

I want to be a fan of smaller outboards that I can lift with one hand (e.g. 3hp), but the received wisdom is that I am a fool in this regard and need to get with the times and think in terms of a 15 hp Enduro.

Received wisdom by whom? we much prefer little outboards, previously a 3.5hp johnson and now a Honda 2.3hp. I can climb up the stern on my own with the outboard in one hand. It lives on a vertical block of wood on the pushpit when not in use and at 11kgs doesn't upset the balance of the boat. Were are you going to put a 15hp outboard? and what about the weight plus the weight of a rib all at the wrong ends causing hobby horsing.

You have a shallow draft yacht so you don't need to anchor miles out, you can almost park her on the beach and step ashore. Wtih a draft of 3'8" we always anchor closer in than the bigger fin keeled yachts.

I was stood 20 yards up the beach when I took this photo. The yacht is in 1.3m of water so I have about 30cm under the keels for clearance The engine is still on the pushpit, I just rowed ashore.

[Pete7]

I agree, poles and arches are probably not aesthetically pleasing but ours is damned useful getting the 150w solar panel up and out of the way. A previous 80w pushpit mounted panel was hit twice by other yachts in harbours. Same for the pole with the AIS antenna, up out of the way so no one grabs it trying to help coming alongside, which we discourage even if well meant.

Does it affect the sailing performance, not that we notice, the side dodgers and sprayhood probably have a greater effect but they are essential for sailing 50'N.

How about this beauty? you could do something similar on your yacht The arch is level, it's the phone lens.

.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I would be surprised if you can get even a small rib on a 25ft yacht foredeck securely without the sheets fouling underway or making anchoring difficult.

While we will keep the Morgan 25 for another year, I'm thinking ahead to larger yachts and trying to think through a number of alternatives and understand the tradeoffs. The score to beat at present is a Pacific Seacraft 37 with the shoal keel, which draws just under five feet. There seem to be plenty of examples on the brokerage market. I think that's the smallest we can stand for more than a weekend, and anything larger either poses problems for draft and bridge clearance or is too light.