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08-07-2010, 09:57
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#436
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cruiser
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
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Having an internal tank separate from the hull make sense to me - after all most newer tankers have inner hulls, so why not boats?
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08-07-2010, 09:58
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#437
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachts66
I was told that by a very well know Naval Architect...
... I'm at a loss as to how this was mindless and unsubstantiated.
Thomas
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You didn’t originally indicate that you “heard” from a N/A, and you still haven’t identified this source, nor those certifying agencies prohibiting integral tanks. Thus, by definition, your information was & is “unsubstantiated”.
I apologise for characterizing your statement as “mindless”. It was a misplaced turn-around on your “bureaucrats and their mindless rules”.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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08-07-2010, 09:58
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#438
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 661
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I will ask him if that would be ok with him. It was a private conversation, so I feel it necessary to get his approval first. I'll fire off an email to him and see what he says.
Thomas
__________________
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing! Ben Franklin 
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08-07-2010, 10:00
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#439
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 661
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Ahhh yes, I do have a not so soft place in my heart for bureaucrats, that is true. I stand by that as well.
Thomas
__________________
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing! Ben Franklin
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08-07-2010, 10:02
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#440
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey
Having an internal tank separate from the hull make sense to me - after all most newer tankers have inner hulls, so why not boats? |
Tanker and boat construction have little in common.
For instance, the cavity between inner & outer hulls on a tanker, is large enough to permit access, inspection, and repair work.
This would be impractical on a small boat.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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08-07-2010, 10:04
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#441
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,083
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THOMAS:
Please also ask him which Agencies, which type of tank (fuel, water, holding, ???), and apllicable to which type(s) of vessel.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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08-07-2010, 10:11
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#442
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 661
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Exactly, Gordo, internal tanks which are not integral make inspection and maintenance impossible unless you go to the trouble of removing the tank, which on some boats is almost impossible without removing a good bit of the interior joinery. Which makes the whole idea of non-integral tanks very unappealing to me.
Back in my wayward youth, I owned a marine engineering firm and dealt with ABS, Det Norske and Lloyds fairly regularly. Some of their rules made sense, then and now, some did not. I suspect this situation is a by-product of the double hull rule on ships that just got incorporated into small boats. I'll ask about that as well.
Thomas
__________________
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing! Ben Franklin
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08-07-2010, 11:20
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#443
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cruiser
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
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So Y66 and Gordie, you're saying the current best practice of installing ss, alum, or fiberglass fuel and water tanks on a boat is bogus because of inspection issues?
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08-07-2010, 11:34
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#444
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,083
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No, I'm not.
For a number of reasons, I am generally in favour of integral water & diesel fuel tanks on metal (not galvanized) boats.
Gasoline tanks may NOT be integral regardless of material.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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08-07-2010, 12:12
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#445
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 34
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Hello, building an internal tank on a steel boat would not be all that difficult. If you keep the sides and bottom of hull skin air tight rust would not be an issue. What I am talking about is a half inch gap between the tank,the hull sides and bottom. What is there to inspect,all inspection would be externally. After all your keel would have a plate welded across it keeping any bilge fluids from getting in there,and you are not doing any internal inspection on it.
I have several sketch up drawings showing this in better detail but I am having problem posting them keeps telling me too large.
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08-07-2010, 13:21
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#446
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cruiser
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
Tanker and boat construction have little in common.
For instance, the cavity between inner & outer hulls on a tanker, is large enough to permit access, inspection, and repair work.
This would be impractical on a small boat. |
Thanks for the clarification.
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08-07-2010, 13:57
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#447
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 661
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On this, Gordo and I are in complete agreement.
Thomas
__________________
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing! Ben Franklin
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09-07-2010, 16:05
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#448
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cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Many screw ups in small boat design come from trying to down size tanker practice on them.
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10-07-2010, 11:49
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#449
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey
Thanks Perchance.
Do you use it (welding) at all in your boating at all? |
I just finished setting up my alternator welder, works great though a little cold (just a bit) and I think I need to get a bigger pulley on the engine/smaller pulley on alternator to speed it up a big and generate more juice.
So to answer your original question salty, yes in fact I can now weld while sailing if I feel so inclined.
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10-07-2010, 13:40
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#450
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cruiser
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
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oh man! haiden that is just too cool! I'm really impressed!!
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