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David_Old_Jersey · 03-01-2009, 02:06

From the title I thought this was a follow up to the Chasing the Dream / Relationships thread

Amgine · 03-01-2009, 19:01

I think the MacGregror 65 is a classic example of a simple, long waterline, fast cruising boat. They sold more than 10 per year during the production run, which is a prime example of the interest in the sailing community for such a craft.

(Mr Perry? don't you think this would be a great design for the anarchists? Note that the MacGregor 65 Corporation has developed a new 70' version and two prototypes have been built, PHRF of -43)

The problem with such boats is the cost of upkeep and maintenance. It's unlikely one can live aboard, cruising, with long-term horizons, and keep the boat in good-to-excellent condition on $12-18k per year. For the first few years from new, sure it can be done. But beyond the first half-dozen? not likely.

The comfort vs speed equation cannot be separated from budgetary considerations. My opinion remains that the budget over-rides all other variables in boat ownership, and that it ultimately dictates when, where, and how you will sail. A fine trailerable cruiser will get to tropical waters faster and in greater comfort than any length of cruiser anyone short of the ton can touch.

Sandero · 03-01-2009, 20:03

That yacht is too big.. much more than I need and could handle, even if it didn't cost more. Yes faster is great. Most humans, especially men and Danika Patrick love speed, but if you want to get there fast take a plane or in some cases a car or a train or even a bicycle. hahaha

**David M** · 03-01-2009, 20:23

I think you can generalize and say you can pick any two out of three. Speed-Comfort-Inexpensive.

Speed and comfort are at odds with one another unless you have the bucks for a really large boat with enough waterline to keep the speed up while loaded with all kinds of goodies.

Amgine · 03-01-2009, 20:57

The m65 *should* be about $110,000 - with some ups and downs for gear and condition. It's interesting some of the YW listings are so high; multipliers of their cost at new. There are only a couple of the boats going for what they're worth, most are over-priced (but then, some of them seem to have been sitting on the market for a year.)

But even comparing them to other boats of their size and vintage they're pretty cheap. Long, narrow, light, fairly deep... their mast is shorter than you might expect, easily driven hull, and minimal accomodations to keep the weight down (and about what you could squeeze into what is, in fact, a pretty small hull by modern standards.) They were designed for a crew of two, and quite a number have been single-handed on passages.

But I've been told the performance suffers dramatically if there is any weight toward the ends, or if the owner tries to bring on too many luxuries. DavidM's three-pointed equation even comes in with a big fast boat - if you add to comfort you take away speed and increase the cost.

Pelagic · 04-01-2009, 06:21

If speed is your priority…......then so is the destination.

If comfort is your priority……then so is the journey.

I prefer the journey over the destination

Weyalan · 04-01-2009, 14:46

What defines "comfort" is open to interpretation. A boat that is "comfortable" on deck at sea, may not be comfortable down below. A boat that is comfortable down below at sea may not be ideally comfortable at anchor. Me; I'll take speed over comfort at sea and comfort at anchor over comfort at sea. The longest passage I have made without a landfall is only about 550 nautical miles, which took about 3 days 20 hours. Another 1.5 knots would have had us tied up at anchor 20 hours earlier...

... but different strokes for different folks.

**James S** · 05-01-2009, 03:56

Guess I'll have to go with Zen...it’s the journey....comfort wins for me.
When I sail, it’s to be sailing...don’t always have a destination!
Of course faster is fun.

**Hud3** · 05-01-2009, 04:34

We did a Chesapeake to Bermuda trip with about ten other boats in the group, all longer, and therefore faster, than our boat. We all experienced very rough weather, with squall after squall (some up to 50 kts) and lumpy, confused seas. When we got to Bermuda, we found that many of the other boats had been so uncomfortable that they didn't even bother trying to cook dinners (peanut butter out of the jar and trail mix), crews were exhausted, and seasickness was rampant. Our trip was bouncy, but not terribly uncomfortable. We were able to fix hot meals each evening and weren't totally worn out at the end of the trip. We spent a bit more time in the bad weather than the others did, but as a whole, had a much better passage.

I think that there's a certain level of "sea-kindly" comfort that needs to be there in an offshore boat. After that, speed is nice.

imagine2frolic · 05-01-2009, 07:59

Hud,

Not only a sea kindly boat, but the way the boat is handled in weather accounts for a lot.

Pelagic,

Looking at Stargazer I would think you are getting both comfort, and speed. Not to mention driving a lovely vessel too!

After spending 4k miles getting caught in weather. Speed was my goal, and at anchor I have all kinds of comfort & space........i2f

**Ex-Calif** · 06-01-2009, 02:05

Last Saturday I was on the "new" boat (J24) for our twilight race. Our Maxi is comfortable and carries a requisite amount of adult refreshments.

However on the J24, we were moored, showered, sails put away, 3 beers in and had finished a plate of nachos and a steak before Relax Lah!'s crew got to the BBQ.

Last year on the Maxi we missed all the Margharitas, the Pisco Sours, the one free beer keg and the hors d'oeuvres at the Ambassador's Cup party cuz we were the last boat by more than 2 hours.

Transfer that to cruising and you are at sea days less if passage making. If day tripping you get to the anchorages first and get the best spot or can go a little further in a day.

You get in sooner, you have time to cook a better meal and relax more before the 4 AM wake up call.

First is always good...

**Hud3** · 06-01-2009, 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

...However on the J24, we were moored, showered, sails put away, 3 beers in and had finished a plate of nachos and a steak before Relax Lah!'s crew got to the BBQ....

Dan,

Shower, fridge, and barbeque grill? That's a very well-equipped J-24!

**Ex-Calif** · 06-01-2009, 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hud3

Dan,

Shower, fridge, and barbeque grill? That's a very well-equipped J-24!

Hey! I'm now telling people that on paper I have a 50 foot boat. It just happens to be a permanently detached asymetrical hulled catamaran....

One hull does have a head, galley and fridge. The new hull has... well... ummm... A companionway mounted spinnaker launcher?

Here is a shot of the new boat at the J24 Nationals. Love the pink spinnaker

My partner is a coatings guy. We are gonna epoxy her this summer. Pink bottom, black freeboard with pink lettering and off white deck looks to be the way we are headed... OK not my first choice but his company might sponsor the paint job so who am I to complain - LOL.

I get to demonstrate how comfortable I am in my manhood...

Sorry for the thread drift - Please resume your regularly scheduled conversation...

Pelagic · 06-01-2009, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Transfer that to cruising .......First is always good...

Dan, I don’t think racers transfer that well to cruising….they are too much in a hurry to get there (and drink that free beer). Reminds me of scuba diving with competitive swimmers….they want to cover as much ground as possible whereas I like to drop down open up a sea urchin and wait for the fish to come for lunch. (….different strokes….)

I think your new Pink Panther color scheme will look great I just wonder how forcibly you will be able to argue your case to the race committee when you explain …. “We called “Mast Abeam”…tacked!... and was rear ended by Godzilla!” A few lesser souls might think you were asking for it!