Smart buying Aluminium yacht Allures/Garcia/Boreal??

[xsork]

At the moment I am in the process of buying an aluminium yacht and will choose from Allures/Garcia/Boreal. It will be an electrified one with Oceanvolt and the whole bunch of genset, solar, hydrogenerator.


Most favorite is the Boreal but I see some indication that the level of finishing is not that great. Last week I attended the open day at KM Yachtbuilders and that convinced me for one of the three other ships.


But, I started this thread for something different. The aluminium prices at the moment (sept 2021) are at 'moon-level'. Which means sky high. Almost as high at the moment just before the crisis of 2007 and onwards.


Now USD 2926/tonne and in 2008 around USD 3030/tonne.


In feb 2009 this price came down to USD 1250/tonne.


What will the impact be on the purchase prices of aluminium for those mentioned ships? Does anyone know how this works for those companies on the buying side of aluminium?



If I compare the prices of those yachts over the last 5 years, they came up very very quickly. Add to that the insane labor wages in Europe.

[Free Willy]

Hi, how are you progressing with your yacht purchasing plans? I am thinking along the same lines as you and I would like to bounce some ideas and share experiences. I think it would be better to do this off line but open to suggestions. Cheers, Bill

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by xsork

At the moment I am in the process of buying an aluminium yacht and will choose from Allures/Garcia/Boreal. It will be an electrified one with Oceanvolt and the whole bunch of genset, solar, hydrogenerator.


Most favorite is the Boreal but I see some indication that the level of finishing is not that great. Last week I attended the open day at KM Yachtbuilders and that convinced me for one of the three other ships.


But, I started this thread for something different. The aluminium prices at the moment (sept 2021) are at 'moon-level'. Which means sky high. Almost as high at the moment just before the crisis of 2007 and onwards.


Now USD 2926/tonne and in 2008 around USD 3030/tonne.


In feb 2009 this price came down to USD 1250/tonne.


What will the impact be on the purchase prices of aluminium for those mentioned ships? Does anyone know how this works for those companies on the buying side of aluminium?



If I compare the prices of those yachts over the last 5 years, they came up very very quickly. Add to that the insane labor wages in Europe.

I’d say metal high end boats are going to increase in costs over the next two years out of all proportion to the point where I expect we’ll see business failures ( and elsewhere in yacht building ) energy costs rising , materials through the roof and on the next two years there will be huge labour wage demands to compensate and skilled labourers are much in demand and job mobile.

It doesn’t look good and I hope the buyers can match price expectations or the segment will disappear.

Anything high end customisable , ie high skilled labour content is going to become very very expensive on my opinion. The future is mass production using automation.

[Manateeman]

Don’t concern yourself with the cost of aluminum. The aluminum king of Russia and Putin might not be around much longer.
Another option is a crew of manatees who drink huge quantities of beer in aluminum cans. Wash, flatten, learn to TIG weld and you’ll save money on your new yacht. Well until the pizza bill arrives.
Captain Mark

[HankOnthewater]

Smart buying?
I do not think that boat buying is smart, but of course you knew that already.

Now more serious........ When buying new, buy soon. When buying in the used market, also buy soonish. And reasons for this slow haste? I do not really know, I am not a expert/broker/builder. I just have been checking these boats with my peripheral visons, and i see the prices increase, not decrease. Only a major economic event, ie bigger than GFC will cause prices to drop. Just an opinion, not fact.

I like your choices BTW, particularly KMY

[Manateeman]

OK. We will stop fooling around. The cost of aluminum is just part of the cost of an aluminum yacht. So much so, it’s laughable to worry about price increases or decreases. For example. I just fabricated five pieces to hold a Fortress anchor on deck. Total weight- maybe a pound. Time to design, layout, cut, drill, and prep...five hours. Diesel fuel in generator for welding, two dollars. Argon, Five dollars. So Labor at $50 =$ 250. Misc.supplies $7. Who cares what the aluminum costs. It’s such a small percent next to design, labor.
Lastly, we have a reasonably high level of skills and experience in Boatbuilding.
Under no circumstances would we consider electric propulsion.
Just our advice / opinion based on our knowledge and experience.
Good luck with your adventure.
Captain Mark and the manatee crew of professional boatbuilders.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Anything high end customisable , ie high skilled labour content is going to become very very expensive on my opinion. The future is mass production using automation.

If you are interested I was gob-smacked at the amount of automation going into Distant Shore's new aluminum boat. I knew C & C made things easier but holy cr@p it actually prints the the part numbers and connecting pieces etc. Its more like building a prefabbed model...

https://youtu.be/sHHXYW7EEo0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHXYW7EEo0

[xsork]

Originally Posted by Free Willy

Hi, how are you progressing with your yacht purchasing plans? I am thinking along the same lines as you and I would like to bounce some ideas and share experiences. I think it would be better to do this off line but open to suggestions. Cheers, Bill

Hi, thank you for your response. Good to see that you also have a similar purchase process. As a Dutchman, it is very easy for me to visit the quality yards and compare. They are all about an hour drive away.

What I saw coming last year is indeed happening, prices are getting completely out of hand. Particularly the wages. And those wages in the Netherlands are already on the high side. You certainly need professionals, but not the entire construction process has to be done by highly qualified employees.

However, the prices are very high and are also rising.

My primary focus is on KM but Hutting (neighbor KM), Puffin and Breehorn are also beautiful ships. It is important to me that I can sail the ship solo.

At first I thought it had to be a French ship, but the level of finish is of a lower level. What is also important to me is that I know for sure that the after service level of the Dutch shipyards is of a high standard. There is also a large degree of customization, which naturally comes at a price.

The big issue at the moment is to what extent the yard wants to make the ship hybrid and/or electric. For example, there is only limited space for solar panels but also what about the reliability of ocean volt/torqeedo. I have put up with these kinds of issues because I think my environmental footprint could be a bit smaller.

Many other factors have already been determined, such as the ship as simple as possible and as light as possible, shaft drive, the choice for aluminum, no air conditioning but heating, maximum insulation and the size of about 50 feet.

Agree with you to discuss and exchange ideas offline.

[xsork]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

If you are interested I was gob-smacked at the amount of automation going into Distant Shore's new aluminum boat. I knew C & C made things easier but holy cr@p it actually prints the the part numbers and connecting pieces etc. Its more like building a prefabbed model...

https://youtu.be/sHHXYW7EEo0

As you know for sure, the art is not in de CNC machine. Aluminium welders of high quality in The Netherlands are very very rare.

Coming weekend of September 23 is an open yard at KM.

[goboatingnow]

It’s hard to know how the “lower “ end of the custom yacht market will respond. How much are people willing to pay for <50 foot. I see it as be coming unaffordable. It will move to 100 feet plus market where buyers have stacks more.

The <50 will shrink to highly automated standard designs.

[xsork]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

OK. We will stop fooling around. The cost of aluminum is just part of the cost of an aluminum yacht. So much so, it’s laughable to worry about price increases or decreases. For example. I just fabricated five pieces to hold a Fortress anchor on deck. Total weight- maybe a pound. Time to design, layout, cut, drill, and prep...five hours. Diesel fuel in generator for welding, two dollars. Argon, Five dollars. So Labor at $50 =$ 250. Misc.supplies $7. Who cares what the aluminum costs. It’s such a small percent next to design, labor.
Lastly, we have a reasonably high level of skills and experience in Boatbuilding.
Under no circumstances would we consider electric propulsion.
Just our advice / opinion based on our knowledge and experience.
Good luck with your adventure.
Captain Mark and the manatee crew of professional boatbuilders.

I had a tour on the Pelagic 77 II, very very impressive.

Thank you Manateeman for sharing your knowledge, I wish I hadn't sided with financial services 30 years ago, but learned a craft from shipbuilding

[xsork]

So skip the French builders for me, focus only on the Dutch builders.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by xsork

So skip the French builders for me, focus only on the Dutch builders.

Well that’s Amel , Garcia , Alubat and Ovni out

Just silly to be nationalistic