Smaller fin keel boats for offshore sailing?

[MacSails]

Hello All,

I am new to the forum, and relatively new to sailing. I’ve spent the last year crewing on other people’s boats whenever I can, reading every sailing book I can lay hands on, and generally trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. The long and short of it is, I’ve decided I want a boat. Realistically, I am at least a couple of years away from buying one, but I’ve been thinking of little else, and have come to a few conclusions about what I want, some firm, and some less so. I’m hoping you all can give me a few suggestions for models to be on the lookout for that meet as many of my criteria as possible.

One thing I feel relatively sure about is that I don’t want to go too big. I plan to sail mostly single or double handed (with my wife and young kids). I’ve spent some time on the Atom Voyages website, which is full of good information, and one thing I agree with James Baldwin about–to say nothing of the Pardey’s, etc–it’s that there are real virtues to going small. I haven’t been sailing for very long, but I’ve already seen first hand the difference in the forces exerted on a 30’ boat vs a 40’+ one. More than that, I am not a wealthy person, and I figure that I will be able to maintain a smaller boat at a much higher level. While I understand that, other things being equal, a larger boat will be faster and more resistant to capsize, I think I’d still rather be in a boat that doesn’t require a lot of crew or huge amounts of mechanical advantage, and which will likely have newer sails, rigging, etc.

The thing is, most people who go small, and who desire (as I do) to head offshore at some point, seem to go with full keelers. I’m less convinced on this point.

Which brings me to my question–can anyone recommend a fin keel boat of say 33’ or less, with an unassailable offshore pedigree? I’m looking to spend 50k or less on the initial purchase, but would plan to invest as much again over the following few years before attempting anything too serious. I’m aware of the Contessa 32, and would consider it despite the short waterline and lack of headroom, but they’re almost all in Europe, and arguably expensive for their age.

My priorities in descending order:

Safety. I understand that sailing is not without risk, and I’ve come to it later in life. I want a boat that will look after its crew when push comes to shove.

Something that sails well. I’m not interested in racing, but I definitely want something that points well. I don’t care so much about raw speed, but I do want something that will move in light air.

Comfort is something I’m willing to compromise on. I’ve done a good deal of backpacking, and every boat I’ve spent a night aboard was palatial in comparison to a tent.

Preferences:
High ballast ratio
Low freeboard
No balsa in the hull
Good build quality
Not too much brightwork
Tiller steering
End boom sheeting
Moderate draft (neither shoal nor overly deep). Around 6' seems like a good compromise.

Thanks for bearing with this long-winded post, and feel free to tell me I’ve got it all wrong. As I said, I’m new to this. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[goboatingnow]

What’s your “ offshore “ requirements. Are you talking weeks at sea , trans oceanic etc. or just a few longer journeys etc.

Then where do you feel most of the sailing grounds will be. NA , Northern Europe , Med , pacific , Australia etc.

Will you be living aboard for long periods has your partner any particular wants or dislikes.

All these feed into the decisions. The keel arrangement is the least of your worries. I think today the ideal long distance cruiser for two are up at 45 feet or more. I’m astounded these days to see 50 footers for two.

[MacSails]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What’s your “ offshore “ requirements. Are you talking weeks at sea , trans oceanic etc. or just a few longer journeys etc.

Good question. I need to gain more experience before I would attempt anything offshore. When I'm ready, I'm thinking progressively: Chesapeake to Cape May, Chesapeake to Maine or Atlantic Canada outside the ICW, Chesapeake to the Bahamas, and perhaps on to the Caribbean. I'd love to do a transatlantic some day, though to be honest, I can't see it happening for a decade or more. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it, but if I'm going to invest the money, I'd rather that the boat isn't the limiting factor. I can't envision wanting to head to the high latitudes, and I'm not looking for a steel icebreaker. If I can find something with a strong rig and high AVS, that's still a pleasure to sail, I will be very satisfied.

[argosail]

Caliber 33 - much better for liveaboard
Yankee 30
Contessa 32 - much better for speed, I HAVE seen one for sale state-side but called the Contessa 33, check sailboatlistings . com
These all have skeg-hung rudders, often a must for offshore though open to debate

Much more likely to have tiller steering on the Contessa since often used as racers. No balsa in the hull for any, not sure about the deck.

[leecea]

with my wife and young kids

I can't help you with boat choices but maybe can suggest some things to think about...

- How much sailing has your wife done?

- Have you been working with her in setting priorities and plans?

- If you get something cramped, will it limit their desire to be part of your trips?

- How much do you expect them to participate versus you sailing by yourself?

I don't think this is something to discuss on the forum but just something for you to consider.

Best wishes,
Andy

[Jim Cate]

I'll add my endorsement of the Yankee 30. I had one for 7 years, sailing in and from SF Bay. Did some racing, both solo and wiith crew, did several trips to SoCal islands and back and finally a round trip to Hawaii. All in all, logged around 25,000 miles. She was a delight to sail, stable, would self steer with a lashed tiller down to about 70-80 AWA and with sheet to tiller on most points of sail. A good all around S&S design for the ages.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by MacSails

Good question. I need to gain more experience before I would attempt anything offshore. When I'm ready, I'm thinking progressively: Chesapeake to Cape May, Chesapeake to Maine or Atlantic Canada outside the ICW, Chesapeake to the Bahamas, and perhaps on to the Caribbean. I'd love to do a transatlantic some day, though to be honest, I can't see it happening for a decade or more. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it, but if I'm going to invest the money, I'd rather that the boat isn't the limiting factor. I can't envision wanting to head to the high latitudes, and I'm not looking for a steel icebreaker. If I can find something with a strong rig and high AVS, that's still a pleasure to sail, I will be very satisfied.

What your looking for is a reasonable modern coastal cruiser. Lots of modern grp production boats fall into that category. So buy as modern as you can. Light air performance should be reasonable.

Amenities need to suit you and your partners expectations. Do more sailing as a couple before you buy. Charter etc.

There are some nice old cruisers sadlers , contessa , small westerly’s etc. but they can be very tired. A friend sailed his 27 footer from the U.K. to Greece this year. He doesn’t have a proper toilet. Rough and tough. But he made it. Atlantic Europe was tough going as she’s lively.

I suggest you lower your long term goals and focus more on what the kids and the missus might enjoy. This could be even just day sailing. Buy a boat for the likely 80% activity not the 20% you might never do. Too many lonely auld fellas on boats by themselves is testimony to failed dreams. !!!

[argosail]

If you do end up with a Contessa 32/33, would love to know how you get along with wife and kids as it considered a cramped boat even for solo sailers.

[Joli]

https://www.cruisingworld.com/story/sailboats/best-used-sailboats/

[wingssail]

There are a tons of excellent boats that fit your preferences.

Here are four which I found rather quickly. All can probably be got for $50,000.

They are all moderate displacement boats with nice interiors.

Since you won't be buying for a couple of years the market will change. But for great sailing characteristics and good prices look for mid to late 1980's design like these.

[wingssail]

Here is another one I particularly like, 1990 C&C 34/36 for $44,000

C&C 34-36.jpg Views: 65 Size: 320.9 KB ID: 265311" style="margin: 2px" />

[thomm225]

If you are new to sailing why would you go right out and spend $50,000 on a sailboat?

You might not like it.

Have you sailed in the ocean?

Ocean sailing makes some folks seasick.

I got my monohull (Bristol 27) sailboat for $2,000 in 2011. It's a Blue Water Ocean crossing boat but small. It will work you when the sea and wind are up

It's my 5th sailboat 6th if you count my dinghy sailor.

I had 4 beach cats I raced also.

Before that it was 5-6 power boats for fishing lower Chesapeake Bay mostly near Tangier coming out of Onancock on my 14' V bottom aluminum with 25 hp

Contessa 32's are great boats but try and find one near here. Not easy.

Capsize Screening Formula on my boat is a bit better than a Contessa 32 also:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/bristol-27

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/contessa-32

To get a boat with tiller steering around here it will probably have to be under 30'

I did see a Wauquiez Gladiateur 33 up your way with tiller steering years ago but not many others over 30'

Maybe you should check out the Wind Hippie Sailing chick in her 27' sailboat cruising the World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPc1AxRSWA

[MacSails]

Originally Posted by argosail

Caliber 33 - much better for liveaboard
Yankee 30
Contessa 32 - much better for speed, I HAVE seen one for sale state-side but called the Contessa 33, check sailboatlistings . com
These all have skeg-hung rudders, often a must for offshore though open to debate

Much more likely to have tiller steering on the Contessa since often used as racers. No balsa in the hull for any, not sure about the deck.

Thanks. The Yankee 30 is very appealing. Wish it were a decade or two younger and more numerous on the east coast, but it's definitely going on the list. I've read mixed things about how the Caliber sails, but will look into it further.

[MacSails]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There are a tons of excellent boats that fit your preferences.

Here are four which I found rather quickly. All can probably be got for $50,000.

They are all moderate displacement boats with nice interiors.

Since you won't be buying for a couple of years the market will change. But for great sailing characteristics and good prices look for mid to late 1980's design like these.

Aren't C&Cs and Sabers balsa cored? It's not necessarily a dealbreaker, but would definitely give me pause. The other two are considerably larger than I'm currently thinking. I found a lot of good options when I was considering options in the 35-38' range. There seem to be considerably fewer options when it comes to tough boats in the low 30s, unless one wants to go heavy displacement long keelers.

[Joli]

Why are you afraid of balsa core?