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Old 12-12-2021, 00:00   #1
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Should I Remove The Mast?

I need to put a new NMEA cord up my mast and a new weather station and windex. I recently had the boat in the service yard and was informed by the manager that the new cord and weather station would require taking the mast out and laying it horizontal on saw horses. That 90% of the time, trying to run the network cable with the mast in, even when able to use the existing cord as a pull guide, results in failure. I was hoping they could just use a boom truck and the existing cord to pull the new cord through. Has anyone had any success with this approach, or is the consensus that the mast should be removed? I've got an old C&C 39. Thanks for any advice!

Aaron
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Old 12-12-2021, 00:24   #2
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Hi, Aaron,

I'd question the , "90% of the time....." sort of statement. We have laboriously pulled wire through our 65 foot mast, and others, many times. It is something an owner can normally do for him/herself. However, that said, it really is way easier to work on it when it is out of the boat.

Our mast is keel stepped, and taking it out is a big pain. You hire a crane, pay for his travel and work time, and eventually, it is all secure on the "saw horses": different yards have different things. What it does do, is give you a chance to take your time, and go very carefully all over it. Are there cracks ANYwhere???? Do they need welding up? Yes. So that there is the opportunity to really refurbish it, without having to go aloft.

If the mast has never been out, it is probably a good exercise to submit to. We were not aware of the cracks at our spreader bases. We have caught many incipient failures over the years, by simple inspection, but we had missed those. It also gives you a chance to check the partners, and reboot it if the boot is oxidized or cracked.

I guess the real question is, how invested are you? Jim and I suffered a dismasting in 1996, and my own feeling is that I REALLY don't want to experience another one. I didn't like it the first time, and I know I wouldn't again, so I may be too conservative here.

See what the others say.

Ann
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Old 12-12-2021, 13:45   #3
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Hi, Aaron,

I'd question the , "90% of the time....." sort of statement. We have laboriously pulled wire through our 65 foot mast, and others, many times. It is something an owner can normally do for him/herself. However, that said, it really is way easier to work on it when it is out of the boat.

Our mast is keel stepped, and taking it out is a big pain. You hire a crane, pay for his travel and work time, and eventually, it is all secure on the "saw horses": different yards have different things. What it does do, is give you a chance to take your time, and go very carefully all over it. Are there cracks ANYwhere???? Do they need welding up? Yes. So that there is the opportunity to really refurbish it, without having to go aloft.

If the mast has never been out, it is probably a good exercise to submit to. We were not aware of the cracks at our spreader bases. We have caught many incipient failures over the years, by simple inspection, but we had missed those. It also gives you a chance to check the partners, and reboot it if the boot is oxidized or cracked.

I guess the real question is, how invested are you? Jim and I suffered a dismasting in 1996, and my own feeling is that I REALLY don't want to experience another one. I didn't like it the first time, and I know I wouldn't again, so I may be too conservative here.

See what the others say.

Ann
Well said...
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Old 13-12-2021, 07:13   #4
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

The other thing you can do while the mast is down is add conduit to run the wires inside rather than having them compete with halyards
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Old 13-12-2021, 13:24   #5
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Maybe you could get wireless instruments with the money you save from not having to remove the mast and run new wires.
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Old 13-12-2021, 13:33   #6
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Most of the time the wires are in a conduit on larger boats.
Most of the time the "bundle" of wires is taped together or etc, making replacing one wire impossible.
Most of the time a wire exits the mast for spreader lights or anchor light which excludes replacing one wire because they are taped or tangled together. These exits also block smooth passage of a new wire.
You could have someone try to remove the wire to be replaced and find out the answers to these things.
Or if it's only adding new wires I doubt they will fit through a packed conduit. You could run them outside the conduit. They may bang in the mast.

The yard is probably 90% right. But there's a chance. Messing can cost you a few hours of labor time and then you may have to remove the mast anyway. The yard can't tell you until you know all this.
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Old 14-12-2021, 02:23   #7
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by radich32 View Post
I need to put a new NMEA cord up my mast and a new weather station and windex. I recently had the boat in the service yard and was informed by the manager that the new cord and weather station would require taking the mast out and laying it horizontal on saw horses. That 90% of the time, trying to run the network cable with the mast in, even when able to use the existing cord as a pull guide, results in failure. I was hoping they could just use a boom truck and the existing cord to pull the new cord through. Has anyone had any success with this approach, or is the consensus that the mast should be removed? I've got an old C&C 39. Thanks for any advice!

Aaron

Might not, but probably will. the alternative is OK for those with access to really handy 8-11 year olds - they are (usually) more dexterous, have better eyesight and are more likly to tret it as an hilarious game than a grim, historic failure.
I found grand-daughters the most capable - boys are apt to be crushed by failure.
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Old 14-12-2021, 07:42   #8
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

I too have a 1978 C&C 29, Mk 1 and had my wired instruments fail. The 2 that failed were the wind instrument and the depth sounder. I have a Garmin 70 GPS mounted on my binnacle. I bought a RayMarine wireless wind indicator/speed powered by a built in solar on the instrument. I was lucky enough to have a cherry picker in my yard (landscaper) who sent a friend up and screwed the sender where the old one was. It reads perfectly and seems trouble free.
Re: the depth sonder - Also bought a Garmin related depth sounder which requires no thru-hull fitting but did need a wire from it to the Garmin. I now read my depth on my Chart Plotter which is great. The Garmin also gives me my speed on the same chart.
My only problem now, my mechanical wind indicator at the top of the mast is loose and needs replacing in the Spring. Probably hire a rigger to install and check my mast. My yacht club does not take down masts. My mast was last down in 2016. Good luck. I truly enjoy me boat more now. Sail from City Island
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Old 14-12-2021, 14:11   #9
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Most of the time the wires are in a conduit on larger boats.
Most of the time the "bundle" of wires is taped together or etc, making replacing one wire impossible.
Most of the time a wire exits the mast for spreader lights or anchor light which excludes replacing one wire because they are taped or tangled together. These exits also block smooth passage of a new wire.
You could have someone try to remove the wire to be replaced and find out the answers to these things.
Or if it's only adding new wires I doubt they will fit through a packed conduit. You could run them outside the conduit. They may bang in the mast.

The yard is probably 90% right. But there's a chance. Messing can cost you a few hours of labor time and then you may have to remove the mast anyway. The yard can't tell you until you know all this.
This are my thoughts also. I have a Kenyon mast and the wires are in a channel behind the sail track. To change any of these wires, you have to lay down the mast. There is a pvc tube pop-riveted inside the mast below the spreaders which holds the radar wire.
If you can pull the old wire out, great. Use it as a messenger and save your money. If you can't, lay the mast down.
I cannot comment on the wireless systems, as I have not used them.
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Old 14-12-2021, 21:33   #10
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Taking the mast out and replacing all the wiring is time consuming and expensive. You should think ahead if you go this route and run new VHF, anchor light, steaming light, deck lights, radar, etc., cabling. Tough knowing where to stop, a proper mast overhaul can include 2 pack paint, halyard exit blocks, lighting, antennas, standing rigging.


Much depends on the service history of the mast and your goals for the boat.


Wireless wind instruments have a place in situations like yours.


It is possible to run wiring on the exterior of the mast, albeit unsightly. Or tied to a shroud.
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Old 14-12-2021, 21:58   #11
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Re: Should I Remove The Mast?

Taking the mast down is a hassle, no bones about it. But you can get so much more done, and done so much better, and more safely, that I think in the end you'll be glad you took the mast down, if you decide to go that route, especially if it is time to replace rigging too.
Now, that said, you could get lucky and run a fish tape down and pull a new wire up without a snag. I suspect it is possible, without knowing the particulars of the inside of your mast. That is easy enough to experiment with that I'd say it's worth a shot if there is no other reason to take the mast down. (If there are any screws poking through the mast then the yard may be proved correct.) That one wire, being loose and not in a conduit will be free to slap inside the mast however which may be annoying when rocking at anchor.
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