Should I fix or sell my boat?

[thomm225]

I always wonder why folks start taking things apart on their new/old boats.

Why would you pull all the stanchions off?

I've sailed my old boat in winds as high has 30 mph for 6 hours and have been anchored in winds to 40 knots plus gusts with leaky stanchions here and there.

I did pull the one off that finally was broken near the base. I then epoxied over the holes and bought a new stanchion and base last year but have yet to replace

The bow roller got broken off in a crash with a piling soon after U bought the boat so I sawed off the damage and put a bolt thru there and kept on sailing

[Ellevan]

TrentePieds -

I'm in the Comox Valley and the boat is 15 minutes north of here on the hard on my family's property.
I hadn't thought of disposal. I hoped that someone with more time and money would want the Crown for a good price to fix her up, but I'm not sure what that price would be. It's the cost not the work of getting her going that freaks me out.

[Ellevan]

Thomm225 -

I had nowhere to keep the boat in the water so I had it moved to my property before winter. While it was out I thought I'd work on it a little...The decks sound solid to me, but I did notice the crap job a previous owner had done with the stanchions and other deck hardware, so I wanted to remove some things and reset them with butyl tape and large washers or backing plates on the underside.

[Calif.Ted]

When "fix or sell" becomes a reasonable question the reasonable answer would seem to be sell. Personally, if you got all the parts I'd put it together so it will sail then either sail it or sell it in season. Don't buy anything new for it not required to make it a functioning day sailer in fair weather, within sight of land. No rewiring, painting, plumbing, cosmetics etc. Just motor runs, sails go up and down, back and forth appropriately, bilge pump works.
That might be easier for me because I know what all the parts are and have a basement full of leftover and old stuff from other boats.

[TrentePieds]

I spent a coupla nights last summer on the hook inside Goose Spit :-) And I love the twon of Comox.

Well, cost is relative, and in many, many ways controllable. Always remember that for 20% of the expenditure, in money OR effort that it would take to achieve perfection, you get 80% of that perfection :-).

You say your paid $2.5K for her. That is nothing. There is an old saying that the most expensive boat is a "free boat". There is truth in that, but fixing this one up so she's useful doesn't need to break the bank, provided you don't try to "goldplate" her, and provided you do the work yourself.

Is she on a trailer still, or how did you get her to your property? Where did you intend to keep her when you first bought her? And now, after you splash 'er?

It sounds as if you have the vast majority of the bits and pieces that are required to make her fit for gentle sailing in the gentle waters that are the Salish Sea. And where you are it is not far to the cruising waters of the Broughtons where people pay big, big bux to get to go :-)

So provided she floats, and provided you are willing to go sailing in a not yet perfect - but still safe - boat you can certainly get pleasure both out of sailing her and out of giving her new life.

Do you want to work through the "problems" one by one and talk about how I would approach it? Thought costs nothing :-) How about this:

The mast is down you say. Could you post us a few pictures of the mast, particularly of the fittings that are still on the mast? You say that there is wiring inside the mast but that it is... uhm.. crappy? Is there a light fitting for an anchor light on the top of the mast? Is there a light fitting at the level of the spreaders for a deck light? Even if you have to buy new light housings for those two things you shouldn't have to spend more than a hundred bux to deal with that problem.

It's still not the sailing season, so you have a bit of time to get some work done. and in the next week or two we can talk through the problems you listed one by one.

For now...

TP

[Calif.Ted]

Just looked at your pictures, next time take the stanchions off one at a time, rebed anything one at a time. Do everything on a boat one at a time, and more easily reversible if it's not working out.
If you can't access for backing plates just fill the screw holes with epoxy like they did when built. Put it together and in the water, make it back into a functional boat again. First project is someone removed all the stanchions leaving open screw holes in the deck, right ?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

When "fix or sell" becomes a reasonable question the reasonable answer would seem to be sell. Personally, if you got all the parts I'd put it together so it will sail then either sail it or sell it in season. Don't buy anything new for it not required to make it a functioning day sailer in fair weather, within sight of land. No rewiring, painting, plumbing, cosmetics etc. Just motor runs, sails go up and down, back and forth appropriately, bilge pump works.
That might be easier for me because I know what all the parts are and have a basement full of leftover and old stuff from other boats.

This is sort of what I was getting at when I said, why take it apart?

If it's sailable, you can do the work at your own pace while seeing if this is really the boat for you because you'd be sailing it between repairs.

(I'm still at this point on my good old boat even though I may have between $8,500 - $10,000 in it over the last almost 7 years. Good news is the purchases were all cash)

In this way you learn tons and will be much more prepared when buying your next good old boat which I'm thinking there will be plenty available in the next 10 years or so

Like it says on the Atomvoyages website:

A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

[Bill O]

After looking at the pics, I'd say it's in very good shape for a 70s boat and as in the Great Lakes area, the boat probably had very light seasonal use all it's life. The interior looks exceptional, well cared for and possibly new(er) cushions.

I've seen much worse. Would like to see the transom cut out and the problems with it. In all, not too much work to get that boat going. Would expect you could do all the work quickly and get it sailing this year, no problem.

It's a simple boat both in rig and wiring, so nothing really fancy needed.

With the mast down, check the existing wires for conductivity, possibly trim wire ends (if any corrosion) then check anchor (add LED bulb) and steaming light to see if they work. Check mast head sheeves and replace halyards. Done.

With the general expected light use of the boat, doubt the standing rigging has seen any real duty cycles on them even after 40 years and should be fine. (unless the shrouds have broken wires or swages are cracked). Check turnbuckles to see if they are bent or damaged in any way (expecting them to be in good shape). Maybe a little lube so they work freely.

Check chain plates. See any rust or if the wooden bulk heads (where attached) are rotted, then it may need work, otherwise caulk.

Would be hard to believe the cabin wiring to be much more than interior lights and running lights. If switching to LEDs need light gauge wire and use old wires to pull new through. Probably need 100' or less of 16 ga. duplex (~$39 US). So not too expensive. If you are only doing day sails and a few overnights, the interior wiring isn't a priority and can be done with the boat in the water.

IMO the outboard is a nice touch for your boat. Easy to work on, take off to store inside for winter, can pull the prop/shaft out of the water for no drag while sailing and adds a ton of interior storage otherwise taken up by an inboard motor. I'm always astonished why people think they need such a large OB on this size boat. Your displacement is only 6700 lbs and you probably will only need it to get in an out of the harbor. We had a slightly heavier Catalina 27 (transom cut out) and hit hull speed with a short shaft 5 hp 2 stroke. A 15 hp is too heavy and may have contributed to the damage on a poorly built transom cut out. Could sell the 15 (~100 lb) and purchase a 6 hp long shaft (~55 lb). (could make a profit here)

Rebedding the deck fitting would be high on my list, as I hate a leaky boat. The # of stanchions are minimal and if you have a helper hold the screw driver up top, you could do a majority of them in a day (if no unexpected problems).

Iron keel. Not much you can do here to keep it from eventually rusting/bubbling again. Had an old Grampian w/an iron keel and did a lot of work prepping it, sealing, etc. only for it to bubble up again a couple of years later. IMO not worth it. Just get is a fair as possible and put bottom paint on it. Do check the caulk at the hull/keel joint and refresh if needed.

Could keep going, but IMO it is a very doable project w/somewhat minimal expense. Looks like it will be a nice fast boat and great for your intended use. Besides gaining sail experience, you'll learn how to work on boats. No matter what you buy they need something, so keep this one, learn and use it.

Bill O.

[snort]

I think the most important factor is the number of hours you have per week to devote to the project.

[Ellevan]

TrentePieds -

A place to keep her once in the water is a big issue. Comox has a 10 year waiting list from what I've heard, and any thing just out of town is still pricey. I spoke with a barge owner, something Sawchuck from the area, who said he could drop a 4400lb concrete block with chain for $700 just outside the comox harbour, all I had to have was specific coordinates and a certified buoy. That seemed like my best option a year ago.

She isn't on a trailer still. She was moved by a guy with an amazing hydraulically lifted trailer from Comox to Merville and set on blocks. He is likely still available for the return.

To be clear, there is no wiring up the mast whatsoever. I don't think she was ever fitted with mast lights as there is no wire or hole leading through the mast-step. Maybe just a day tripper?

Here is the mast -

[Ellevan]

Bill O -

I'll get some pictures of the transom cutout. It was never sealed properly so the fg has separated and allowed water in... This is the biggest structural concern that I have. Last time I climbed in under the cockpit to tighten the shoddy motor mount job I could see that water had soaked into the transom.

There are some rigging parts missing but I believe what's there including wire isn't in too bad of shape. I would like to find a source for used hardware but no luck so far.

There has been a slight bit of leaking around chainplates, but very little and likely only in the last year or so. Where they attach to bulkheads is solid from what I can tell. If I avoid pulling them, what caulking do you recommend?

The Honda 15 4-stroke is a beast to lift, so I'm all for a lighter model. If I were to get it running well, what do you think it might be worth? I do have experience tinkering with engines. Maybe I'll order a tuneup kit if there is such a thing.

When you say get the iron keel as fair as possible, do you mean take it down to bare metal and then prime and paint? I've never used marine paint before but have plenty of painting experience.

Thanks a bunch for your advice.

[Ellevan]

I will need a head-sail. I don't see any specific dimensions listed on Sailboatdata. Is there somewhere else I could look this up for the Crown? How exact does it need to be? As you can see I have a roller, so it will have to be that type I assume(newbie..). On that note, a Jib? Genoa?

The help I'm receiving on this forum has already gone way beyond my expectations.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Ellevan

Bill O -

I'll get some pictures of the transom cutout. It was never sealed properly so the fg has separated and allowed water in... This is the biggest structural concern that I have. Last time I climbed in under the cockpit to tighten the shoddy motor mount job I could see that water had soaked into the transom.

There are some rigging parts missing but I believe what's there including wire isn't in too bad of shape. I would like to find a source for used hardware but no luck so far.

There has been a slight bit of leaking around chainplates, but very little and likely only in the last year or so. Where they attach to bulkheads is solid from what I can tell. If I avoid pulling them, what caulking do you recommend?

The Honda 15 4-stroke is a beast to lift, so I'm all for a lighter model. If I were to get it running well, what do you think it might be worth? I do have experience tinkering with engines. Maybe I'll order a tuneup kit if there is such a thing.

When you say get the iron keel as fair as possible, do you mean take it down to bare metal and then prime and paint? I've never used marine paint before but have plenty of painting experience.

Thanks a bunch for your advice.

It sounds more and more like find another boat. That transom alone is going to be a major job. That heavy old 4 stroke Honda might be the best part of your investment. JMHO

[TrentePieds]

All:

See my #29. Ellevan's cost to get out from under the present situation via the “land fill route” will be on the high side of $10K. Very little would be recoverable by “parting out”, partly due to Ellevan's particular location, and partly due to a market for “boat junk” that is already glutted.

The cost of getting this boat to sail-able condition may be $10K, but it wouldn't be, if the boat were in MY back yard :-)! So the obvious choice is to fix and SAIL, rather than to dump her. Choosing the former, Ellevan will have a very useful learning experience, and, by the end of this summer, some sailing pleasure. Choosing the “land fill route”, all Ellevan will have to look forward to is the irrecoverable loss of ten kilobux and lifelong regret.

I agree – in the abstract – with everything that has been said twixt #29 and Ellevan's #40. But we ain't talkin' “abstract”. We are talking harsh reality. So let's all knuckle down to helping Ellevan get out of this fix with his head held high and his bank balance intact! I deduce from prior posts that E. is still quite young, i.e. that he is still in his earning years, so that time is available and money can be made to see this job through.

To that end I'm going – as we go along – to make some recommendation that will fly in the face of conventional wisdom. But they will all be aimed at making this boat sail-able and SAFE at minimum cost. So here goes:

Ellevan:

Thanx for the pics of the mast. My reason for addressing the mast first is that I suspected that you'd have to put down a plug. The reason is this: At Ladysmith (lovely place, lovely marina) I pay three grand a year for a thirty foot slip. Even if laying that amount down for moorage wouldn't pain you, you should be spending the money on fixing the boat rather than on moorage. The seven hunnert for the plug is a one time expense, and that expense WOULD be recoverable in the future, if and when you no longer need the plug.

From the “Rules”: You need to display an anchor LIGHT at night and a “day shape” - a ball – in the daytime when you are lying at anchor, except in a “recognized anchorage”. The patch inside Goose Spit off HCMS Quadra is “recognized” by local convention as being “navy territory”. It's alright for a transient boat to put 'er hook down overnight, in there, but Her Britannic Majesty in Right of Canada would NOT smile on a civilian putting a plug down. Over on the other side, off Filberg Park, I think it would be alright. So let's use that as a “working hypothesis”

Because you will be anchoring out elsewhere as well, you must have an anchor light. And while we are at it, you must have a dinghy. But one thing at a time: As your mast lies, and as far as I can see from the pics, the inside of the extrusion is essentially smooth, and there are no halyards within it. It's about a 35 foot stick. Take off the “crane” (the fitting at the top that holds the shieves for the halyards). Get three 14Ft lengths of 1x2 mounding. Poke one inside the extrusion so it only sticks out about six inches. Butt-join the next one to it, securely, with a dozen wraps of 2 1/2" masking tape. Feed that length in also. Do the last one the same way. Now, taping some light line, say 3/16” to the butt of that last stick, pull the moulding out of the mast so only the line lies within. That line is to be left there forevermore, so use decent stuff. We call a line so employed “a messenger” for obvious reasons we'll come back to.

There you go. An hour's work, and no money spent so far. What about the 1x2s? You keep those, because they will come in handy when you begin to rebuild the furniture :-)!

My next missive will talk about the actual wiring. Once that's done, you'll be ready to raise the mast. You wouldn't in your yard, of course. Rather, at that point, if I were you, I'd and if I were you, I would then begin to address the stanchions and other deck fittings. Again, you'll find that it ain't all that bad. Or all that expensive. Remember we are not after “pretty”. We are after “serviceable” - and SAFE :-)

TP

[hamburking]

Please keep in mind, you don't need to make it a "perfect" boat on day one.

I had a similar old boat once. I removed all the wiring from the mast. I removed almost all the wiring from below. Since you have an outboard...what do you need wiring below for? A few LED flashlights, handheld VHF, handheld GPS...what else do you really need? I use a very nice hanging LED light for an anchor light...cost $8 and batteries last about a week solid. Glad to hear you found the main sail...thats a big deal. Maybe keep looking for the jib? Used jibs aren't expensive...maybe $300. The key measurement on the jib is the luff length...it should be a couple feet shorter than the sail track on the forestay. You might compare your specs with common boats like C&C27 for a good fit. Just about everybody with a boat has 2 or 3 old jibs they never use. Standing rigging is actually pretty cheap, just difficult to measure unless you have the old rigging. Turnbuckles are stupid expenisive, so hopefully you have those still. Inboards are difficult and expensive when they need work. You are lucky with a honda outboard...good engine. Easy enough to drop off at an outboard repair shop, and I would bet it costs only a couple hundred to get it into top running shape again. You can't get a diesel mechanic to the end of the dock for that money!

You got a great deal on a nice looking boat. The hardest part is starting. My friendly suggestion is to not try to do everything at once. Start with what MUST be done. Get the boat clean and empty of all the leftover and broken junk/wiring/plumbing. If it doesn't work, get it off the boat. A bucket works for a head. Flashlights instead of miles of interior wiring. Ice instead of refrigeration. Running rigging is cheap. Anchors and gear for that size boat are cheap enough too.

I say go for it. And post pictures and updates as you go.