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07-12-2020, 12:26
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Olympia, Washington
Boat: 1979 Mariner Ketch 32-Hull 202
Posts: 2,124
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404
I'm looking for my first boat, or first one I couldn't pick up and put on the roof of my car anyway.
Up to now I've been avoiding ketches, focusing on sloops. I've looked at a couple of cutters but they didn't fit the bill.
I've come across a mid-eighties Pearson 365 ketch that meets all my criteria except its a ketch.
This is for FL keys gunkholing, probably coming up north in the summer, possible Bahamas in 2022.
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I believe most Ketch rigged boats are long keeled.
That would be an interesting question for a first boat.
They do sail differently than a Sloop.
There are long keeled Sloops.
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07-12-2020, 13:38
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not travelling
Boat: Nonsuch 30
Posts: 1,669
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_P
I'm still looking and dreaming but from what I see, a ketch isn't any more difficult to sail than a sloop or cutter. There are more lines but that's about it. Based on what I've read, Amel used to only build Ketches in the beginning because they're easier to sail shorthanded when only 1 person is on watch during passage. If it were me, and for me it is, I wouldn't rule them out.
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Interesting that Amel's new model, the 50, is a sloop after decades of building ketches. Improvements in sail handling technology have meant that sloops (cutters, sloops with Solents) can do pretty much all you want and simply. For the OP, if the Pearson makes sense to you go for it, it will get you where you want to go.
__________________
Have taken on the restoration of the first Nonsuch, which was launched in 1978. Needs some deck work, hull compounding, and a bit of new gear.
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07-12-2020, 14:28
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,126
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404
Ah, I had not even considered this. This could be the deal killer.
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Solar is a headache. I wouldn't have other than a ketch...sort of like the STOL-ed version of a 182. You loose a little on the top end, pay extra for the dangly bits that get in the way too often, but it offers some utility in various places when you really need it. But depending on your energy plan, may be hard to get sufficient solar to meet your needs if you're needing lots of juice.
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07-12-2020, 14:58
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Port adelaide south australia
Boat: Cheoy lee perry 48
Posts: 750
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Heavy weather sailing jib And jigger ie headsail and mizzen great rigg and safe and easy ⛵️👍⚓️
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07-12-2020, 15:05
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lake Erie
Boat: Pearson 365 ketch
Posts: 182
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCoolDave
There were a handful of Pearson 365 sloops made. They pop up for sale every now and again. The ketch does make it harder to have a bimini and solar power. If you like the 365 and want to gunkhole then a Pearson 35 would be a great boat. Its a sloop. It has a shoal draft with a centerboard. Prices are very simiar to the 365. I own a 367 which is the same hull, cutter rig with a ft deeper draft and larger rudder. It has a bit nicer interior than most of the 365s, more wood, no pilot berths. Bristol 35.5 is also a nice shoal draft/centerboard boat in same size.
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Have to disagree on the Bimini / solar statement - we have a 365 , has a dodger and Bimini with a removable middle section that you can leave in of take out for sailing with removable side curtains and have solar ( so far only the panels on the dodger and the rear Bimini , but plans for more on the davits)
It's a great boat - strong as heck , easy to balance , shallow draft too , which will help you gunkholing.
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07-12-2020, 15:37
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Boat: Westerly Conway 36ft
Posts: 961
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
I'm another ketch owner. Not familiar with American boats but looking online, looks like a good strong seaworthy cruising boat. Mine is centre cockpit with the mizzen behind the helm - we fitted a bimini for the Med which worked fine - back in UK its more useful to keep rain off the helmsman, but there are days when we appreciate the sun protection too.
Looks like you can fit a bimini & solar without too much trouble. Lots of benefits to ketches as already stated. Main one for me is to be able to just drop the mainsail when the wind is up & still be balanced sailing on the jib & mizzen. Others not mentioned here that I have seen is that the centre of effort of the whole sailplan is lower since the same sail area is shared between main & mizzen, meaning less heeling in a given wind strength. Also the mizzen is a good place to put your radar transmitter radome. Also a wind generator as long as you have no bunks under the mizzen (think resonance like with a tea chest & broomstick double bass musical "instrument").
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07-12-2020, 15:51
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New England. USA.
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 1,474
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Another larger ketch owner here. Center cockpit. Radar, ais antenna, nav Tex and wind gen on the mizzen. Kill stitch for the wind gen in reach of the bunks in the aft cabin.
Missed mast well aft of the cockpit.
Jib and jigger is awesome. The fun of going wing and wing and wing downwind too.
47’ and designed for a couple to handle.
Not bad as a single handed boat either.
I like the reduced loads of the split rig.
And the helm balancing ability as well.
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07-12-2020, 16:32
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Boat: Westerly Conway 36ft
Posts: 961
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
"Kill switch for the wind generator" ? To stop it turning? How does that work, please?
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07-12-2020, 16:40
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#39
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Aboard
Boat: Seaton 60' Ketch
Posts: 1,339
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
First cruising boat was a yawl, now have a ketch, with a cutter, sloop, and schooner in-between. Split rigs are fun, pretty, and flexible.
__________________
Scott Berg
WAØLSS
SV CHARDONNAY
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08-12-2020, 07:08
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Boat: 73´ULDB custom ketch
Posts: 1,069
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
It is not harder to sail a ketch than a sloop. In a way easier, as the individual sails tend to be smaller. Both rigs have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I prefer the ketch rig, but the type of rig is just one factor amongst many. As a first boat a ketch is perfect. So is s sloop Schooners are nice also.
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08-12-2020, 09:25
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ventura, California
Boat: Toes in the surfline and eyes on tomorrow's horizon
Posts: 323
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiniA
Interesting that Amel's new model, the 50, is a sloop after decades of building ketches. Improvements in sail handling technology have meant that sloops (cutters, sloops with Solents) can do pretty much all you want and simply. For the OP, if the Pearson makes sense to you go for it, it will get you where you want to go.
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You left out market forces in your equation.
Facts are facts and the current market forces lean heavily toward sloops because they're "cleaner looking" and simpler to sail for the "average" sailor as well as being "faster" (which is more due to design rather than sailing ability).
At some point the charter industry will turn to solar powered Cats exclusively and get rid of sails completely. Why? Market forces. Solar powered Cats will be easier to maintain and have less equipment repair costs over the life of the charter without sacrificing the size and/or roominess of the boat while also making them easier to operate by the "average" sailor. Plus a solar Cat can go directly upwind without tacking and that's a huge plus for the charter industry.
And we all know, or should be aware, that the charter industry is what drives the new designs. Ketches are "old school". Not as "old school" as schooners, but still in the same category. Sloops are where it's at right now. Not because they're "better" or "more efficient" or any of the other reasons that get bandied about. It's because that's what the market is demanding be produced by the manufacturers and no manufacturer is going to build products that no one wants to buy.
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08-12-2020, 10:50
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Biloxi, MS
Boat: 1978 Cabo Rico Tiburon 36 "Isabella"
Posts: 597
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Sure! Why not?
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09-12-2020, 02:17
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Circumnavigating, currently in Turkey
Boat: Ex Salina 48, now Lagoon 380
Posts: 401
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Smaller sails + smaller winches + smaller sheets = smaller problems....
Easier to handle.
More sail option, more balance etc etc....
If I was to buy a mono, that's the rig I'd choose.
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09-12-2020, 03:33
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#44
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registered user
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: back in West Australia
Boat: plastic production boat, suitable for deep blue water ;)
Posts: 1,096
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
Funny that, nearly all previous posters praised the values of a ketch. Has a thread like this brought out all the ketch owners (past and present)?
Of course there is bias to what we own ourselves, and we expect ketch owners to put their rigs on a pedestal. And here I am, one of them.
Truth is that there are virtually no ketches being built right now, as the market does not want them. Ainia told the story of Amel, the last of the volume ketch builders: they too went the single stick way.
If I was in the market for another boat, I certainly consider a ketch if the boat was around 42-45 ft, and if much bigger then I would be only looking for two sticks on deck. Under 40 ft, the advantages are not as great as things become more cramped with the additional rigging and mast, but...... the ability to choose the sails to match the conditions remain: desirable.
There is one inaccuracy in the previous posts, that ketches are long keeled. Yes, some or many are, but many are not, they have a more modern underwater shape.
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09-12-2020, 10:37
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Boat: Land bound, previously Morgan 462
Posts: 1,991
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Re: Should I consider a ketch as a first boat?
If you love the boat then fine. Sailing a ketch is not very different from a slòop. But I think having 2 masts on a boar under 40 ft is a waste of space.
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