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Old 02-12-2016, 14:26   #46
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

Each teak strip should have a C-shape recess for caulking
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:07   #47
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

I bought a 1982 trawler knowing that I would have to replace the teak decks. (The survey called them "fully depreciated.") I anticipated replacing them with a synthetic teak from the beginning, and I watched the development of those products for years until I found one that was a close enough match to real teak that I went ahead with the job.

As has been mentioned, removing an old teak deck is a bitch. I got lucky and there was no core damage from water ingress, so the holes were filled and the deck was painted with white Awlgrip primer to protect it until the new deck was laid.

I chose Permateek in "classic" color and I really like it. Here's the good, the bad and the ugly from the job. The good; I was quoted about 40K for real teak. Including labor to remove the old deck, I'm all in at about 20K. The Permateek looks good, feels good on bare feet, provides good traction, doesn't get as hot as real teak, is lighter weight, essentially maintenance free and glued in place without fasteners.

Here are the cautions; instead of being fitted plank by plank, the Permateek is manufactured in sheets, so the fit and finish of the final job is based on the quality of the template you provide, rather than the material itself. Next, the Permateek is not as thick as the original deck, so teak blocks had to be made as spacers for stanchions and railings. Also, because the Permateek is thinner and lighter weight, it will show a wavy deck for what it is, where a heavy slab of teak is more forgiving. It's like painting a car black that has wavy body panels. So there you have it. Hope this was helpful.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:46   #48
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

Has anyone actually installed Teak Deck Systems products, and could you share your experience (good, bad, whatever)?
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:19   #49
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
I've noticed a couple of posts mention a need to "re-groove" their deck. I suggest that's because the installers took the lazy way of creating the caulk groove by cutting a rebate along one edge of the teak strip.

The teak on my deck has no rebate, Each strip is laid separately, using 3/16" plastic spacers. These were removed once the synthetic rubber had 'set'. The resultant holes were then filled with the caulking gun prior to receiving a final sanding.

This means each individual strip of teak is separated only by 'syn-rubber'. They do not rely on a rebate and touching each other to provide a groove.

As most of you will know, all wood, including teak will swell and contract when wet or dry conditions prevail. If teak strips are butted against each other, they will soon start to buckle.

For a long life, I recommend having a professional lay your new teak deck, or bone up on the correct procedure if you choose to do it yourself.
Good point. My understanding is with thicker decks, there is a 'bead breaker' strip of foam inserted in the bottom third of the groove. The caulking then fills from there to the top surface. I can only assume the idea is to avoid a very deep caulk that takes time to cure and shrinks back in doing so?
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:52   #50
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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Good point. My understanding is with thicker decks, there is a 'bead breaker' strip of foam inserted in the bottom third of the groove. The caulking then fills from there to the top surface. I can only assume the idea is to avoid a very deep caulk that takes time to cure and shrinks back in doing so?
Most of the caulk I've seen used has been 2 part mix, so I doubt curing is a problem. maybe there are others used though...?
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:52   #51
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
I bought a 1982 trawler knowing that I would have to replace the teak decks. (The survey called them "fully depreciated.") I anticipated replacing them with a synthetic teak from the beginning, and I watched the development of those products for years until I found one that was a close enough match to real teak that I went ahead with the job.

As has been mentioned, removing an old teak deck is a bitch. I got lucky and there was no core damage from water ingress, so the holes were filled and the deck was painted with white Awlgrip primer to protect it until the new deck was laid.

I chose Permateek in "classic" color and I really like it. Here's the good, the bad and the ugly from the job. The good; I was quoted about 40K for real teak. Including labor to remove the old deck, I'm all in at about 20K. The Permateek looks good, feels good on bare feet, provides good traction, doesn't get as hot as real teak, is lighter weight, essentially maintenance free and glued in place without fasteners.

Here are the cautions; instead of being fitted plank by plank, the Permateek is manufactured in sheets, so the fit and finish of the final job is based on the quality of the template you provide, rather than the material itself. Next, the Permateek is not as thick as the original deck, so teak blocks had to be made as spacers for stanchions and railings. Also, because the Permateek is thinner and lighter weight, it will show a wavy deck for what it is, where a heavy slab of teak is more forgiving. It's like painting a car black that has wavy body panels. So there you have it. Hope this was helpful.
Nice informative post!
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Old 06-12-2016, 14:44   #52
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

Thanks all for your thoughtful remarks.

-Jim
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Old 06-12-2016, 15:08   #53
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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Originally Posted by crabcake View Post
Has anyone actually installed Teak Deck Systems products, and could you share your experience (good, bad, whatever)?

I've replace teak decks with Teak Decking Systems on at least a dozen boats working as a carpenter for 25 years. (30 -60 ft sailboats and powerboat)
Removal of old decking and repair to sub-deck is vital. All core replacement needs to be done, accurate templates sent to TDS (easy!), and accurate placement and fitting upon receipt of new deck is a must.
Often panels are held in place with fender washers and screws placed in caulking seams while being epoxy glued in place. I feel it's so important to epoxy fill those temporary fastener holes to prevent future water intrusion.
The panel sections are then caulked with TDS silicone caulk (very similar to Dow 795 the best!). I know... Silicone..? Yes!
I have decks as old as 30 years old and they are somewhat worn but look great! No bungs or fasteners, caulking has not given up the bond to teak.
On my boat I wouldn't have teak decks because they're so hot to walk on, but they are beautiful..! If done right, TDS is a great system for decking.
*** I have no connections to TDS and have retired from laying decks many years ago
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:57   #54
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

I have an older boat with teak decks over fiberglass, it's in my bsck yard now waiting for me to remove the teak and fill the holes. Even when they are well taken care of and don't leak there is still a fair amount maintenance involved. If you have a warped sense of humor buy one with teak decks and remove them. There's a bit of labor involved.

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Old 07-12-2016, 10:38   #55
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

My boat is in long haul for the winter and some refit.
The boat next to is a 40+ sailboat with teak decks that he started to strip, sand, and refinish in September.

I have a 58 foot hatteras cruising yacht with a lot of teak but no teak decking. Probably 40% of the teak he has.

About half through doing his deck he quit pulled out the teak deck and brought a guy in to prep paint the entire topside except the teak trim.

I started the refit earlier so mine has been painted and she really looks good. I refinished the teak doors and trim myself.

After getting to know him and talking to him he said it was the best thing he could have done. They found a couple of soft spots, some rot, filled screw holes, sanded it down and she is ready to paint.

Come Spring when its warm enough to paint it will look great especially with teak trim finshed.

On both our boats there is enough teak to provide a great contrast to the white deck.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:54   #56
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

84 Cambria with teak decks. It's not the deck, it's the core. If ply or balsa pass on it. Solid or foam, go for it. I did.

The overheads leaked where holes were drilled into the bottom layer for mounting stuff.

I used a forstner bit and drilled out the plugs, removed the screws and injected a penetrating epoxy into each hole. Then reinserted the screws and re-plugged it. I did this for a 5 sq ft section. Next morning I did the next section and reefed and caulked the previous section. Took most of the summer weekends but what else am I going to do? Sail?

Guess what. It still leak through some but I'm chasing down the troublemakers. Moral of the story, don't get a rotten core. Otherwise follow your eye for beauty.

By the way, Not hot down below from the teak. It's a good insulator and the foam core helps too.

I used Teak Decking systems caulk. Was easy and durable.
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Old 26-02-2017, 20:37   #57
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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Some nice balance - thank you

Our decks are the modern, thin strips, glued down to a fibreglass deck with just a few screws here and there. We very much enjoy the look and the feel underfoot (safe!).

The old adage of keeping wet with salt water does not work for me. The teak wears away, and goes grey.

We regularly are asked if our boat is brand new, and when we say it's (now) at the end of it's 5th season, we are asked how we keep our teak looking new.



Easy - once a year (except this year we didn't), we spend around two hours (let's say 4 man-hours max between the two of us) applying a fresh coat of Semco. That's it !



Think about it - if you have bare wood, it is getting wet, and dirty, and wearing. If you have the wood sealed, it is not getting wet or dirty, or wearing - the sealer is copping all of that. So - how can the deck wear out if it has a coat of sealer on top, and that is maintained? Effectively it can't, and ours isn't.



Of course the caulking will need maintenance at some stage, and then at some stage further, it will need replacing, but so far all is well, and for us, the few hours a year are well worthwhile, and at some point down the track - well boats need maintaining. We spend more time polishing the hull than we do keeping the teak sealed and looking new!



Here is what our decks look like after 5 seasons, and over a year since they were re-coated. First photo after re-coating in early June 2015, second late July 2016. In the Med, where the water is wet, and the sun is hot. If you look closely you will see some areas in the second photo (no idea why it went sideways when I uploaded it!), that are just starting to grey - need to re-coat next year!


David B, what do you use to clean your teak before you apply the Semco? I have heard that the Semco cleaner is acid based and to stay away from it but nothing negative about the sealer. I have teak only on the coach roof and cockpit. Your method sounds awesome and straight forward.
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Old 05-03-2017, 20:33   #58
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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David B, what do you use to clean your teak before you apply the Semco? I have heard that the Semco cleaner is acid based and to stay away from it but nothing negative about the sealer. I have teak only on the coach roof and cockpit. Your method sounds awesome and straight forward.
We used the Semco cleaner and neutraliser.
The cleaner is a strong alkali rather than an acid. It is basically a solution of sodium hydroxide, and they do say on the label that it is "harsh". You will find that the soft, pithy areas are eroded somewhat, but applied correctly (wet the decks well beforehand, squirt on and rub across the grain with a soft deck brush, then wash off again), that it is not too bad, but it certainly cleans well. The 'wow!' comes from the neutraliser (which by its nature must be acid based to some degree, and I suspect it is oxalic acid). Once very well washed down as a final rinse when all areas are treated with the cleaner, you squirt on and spread with a soft deck brush as you did with the cleaner. Within seconds the timber is restored to a deep, rich colour - quite spectacular.
The next day when all is dry, you would think the decks had just been sanded.
Another reason to use the sealer in my view - what the cleaner does to the softer areas of the timber, is what nature does if you don't protect the timber - it just erodes, and washes away.
We did not have time to re-treat our decks last season, so when we return in May, I suspect it will be time to clean and re-seal the transom step. It gets the hardest life down there, and the build-up of sealer is noticeable, so it will be time to experiment with the 'Clear Tone' sealer, which has a lot less pigment in it. The official advice is to use one of the more pigmented sealers ('Natural Tone' in our case) first, then maintain with 'Clear Tone' if you want to go that way.
Until I get back on board, I am undecided regarding that. No doubt I will experiment first, but the outcome will dictate what we do when it finally comes time to strip the decks back with the cleaner and start again. At this stage, I suspect that is another five years off however.

I hope that helps,

David
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:53   #59
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

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....
Most things I've read and most people I've talked to have suggested that I stay away from teak decks given they're likely needing replacement as early as 15 years old but certainly when getting to 25 - 30 years old and the replacement cost is very high, even as a DIY project.

Should I continue to avoid teak decks, or keep an open mind and consider teak decks just one more item in the overall condition of the boat? TIA

-Jim
This is a worthy topic.

I have what is called "The Teak Reduction Act". I remove some teak from the topsides every year.

One of the first things we did was remove the teak from our Formosa 46. We had all the teak off the first day. Then spent some time removing residual little screws. A couple days sanding to clean the residual bonding from the underlying, cored, glass deck. Then a day with a toothpick and epoxy, filling all the little screw holes. We didn't find any soft spots in the deck. But if we had, we would have cut them out and replaced the cored deck.
Then we sanded and cleaned again, and lay down 5 to 7 layers of 17 ounce biaxial fiberglass cloth with West System epoxy. I overdid it and 2 layers would have been enough. We now have a deck as strong as our hull and lighter than the teak.
We bought a roll of fiberglass 12" wide and I cut off 2 to 3 foot pieces to lay one at a time. We mixed epoxy about 6 to 8 ounces at a time in little paper cups; just enough for a piece of fiberglass. We wetted out one piece and got it down, then cut the next piece and mixed another cup of epoxy. Any larger amount of epoxy would "fire" (bond) before we could use it.
The job went quickly. If an area was left to cure before the next layer, we sanded and cleaned because West System has a wax (release agent) built in that forms on the surface and must be cleaned away for a good bond. After a few days of glass work our deck we done. Still "lumpy" but strong and no air bubbles or unbonded areas.
We used some extra epoxy and some epoxy with fillers to make a paste to fair the new deck and smooth over the lumpy spots. Then a final sanding, cleaning, and a couple coats of paint to protect the epoxy from sunlight. Just recently, 20 years after doing the deck, we finally added non-skid.

The entire job may have cost $2,000, and this includes 6" sander, two 5 gallon jugs of epoxy (used about 7 gallons), new deck fills, hole saws, new fasteners for stanchions, etc.
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Old 07-03-2017, 16:57   #60
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Re: Should I change my mind about teak decks on older boats?

G'day, Mate. My 1984 Mason 53 never had teak decks. I was lucky to find it when I was looking.
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