Shopping for a Blue Water Cruiser

[roverhi]

Unless you really like water running down the mast and inside the boat rotting out the mast step might want to include deck stepped mast as well on your list. The only benefit of a keel steeped mast is primarily racer oriented as the mast section can be slightly less substantial and thus a little lighter. Masts fall over almost exclusively because of a failure of the rigging not the mast itself.

[ShinyHappy]

Originally Posted by JDanielBryant

I have a friend who is selling a blue water cruiser - a Wauquiez 43 Amphitrite - for $59K, as it happens. Search for it on https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/90861

I have one, as does Fatty Goodlander, a cruiser who writes for Cruising World, and the Wauquiez 43 is a very comfortable blue water boat. Veit’s boat is rigged for cruising - I was helping him with the Monitor Self-Steering recently.

Dan Bryant

Yikes, that's a nice boat. It looks like he has put a ton of work into the boat and just from the pics it looks like he is the type of person I would want doing that work, it's all very neat and clean.

Someone is going to get a beauty.

[frankds]

Hey Cap,I Know of a Cabo Rico 38 that needs some work that you could pick up for 25 K in the Palm Beach area....5615885527

Frank

[TrentePieds]

Cap Morgan:

I apologize for my post this morning (#12) having gone off half cocked and for my then having been called away before I had a chance to rectify that.

So here is the full version:

Cap Morgan:

You say: "Blue water capable as opposed to coastal sailing or bare boat cruisers. For instance, I’m looking for a monohull that will be inclined to right itself if knocked down which wouldn’t be the case with the typical Charter boat."

Really? How do you know that?

I'm not being snarly, Cap :-). Quite the contrary. I'm hoping that we 'ere on CF can help to get you on the right track. IMO starting with Boat Trader and Yachtworld is QUITE the wrong approach to solving the problem before you. What you DO need to do, as suggested by other CFers in previous post though no-one has sail so in so many words, is start by doing some ruthlessly structured thinking about what YOU want to do and WHERE you want to do it. As someone said: "Blue water boat" is a useless term.

So I offer you an article (link below) that will clarify the forces acting on a sailboat that has been “knocked down”. A few moments of study will show you that no sailboat, whether in charter or in sole ownership, will remain “knocked down”. A grown-up sailboat with a keel will ALWAYS right itself even if it has “turned turtle”. That is not true for sailing dinghies and small cruisers relying on a centre board for lateral plane.

You will also deduce from the diagrams given in the article that it is NEVER the wind that “knocks down” a sailboat. That is a physical impossibility, and in any event as a competent skipper you would no doubt have eased sheets before your angle of heel (induced by wind) would have gone much beyond 20º. If the angle of heel when sailing in a high wind begins to approach 30ºs, the puddle the crew (or even the skipper) is sitting in is not usually sea water ;-)!

What CAN happen to a sailboat is that it “falls off a (breaking) wave”, and in consequence will be rolled over by the force of the water. Even then, even if it be a charter boat, it will try to right itself. However, it may have lost its rigging in the roll-over, and worse still, ports, windows and hatches may have stove in so the boat fill with water and sink. But then, you, as a competent skipper, would not have taken the boat “where the scattered waters rave and the winds their revels keep”, would you :-)?

So here is the article:

https://wavetrain.net/2013/05/16/mod...ing-stability/

Now, don't take my words too hard. But do be aware that buying a boat and crossing oceans is NOTHING like buying a “motorhome” and blowing it down Route 66! Or even up the M1. For that you don't need to know much. Know also that it is not boats that take their crews safely across oceans. It is competent crews, particularly competent skippers [like Kretchmer and many here on CF :-)] that take boats safely across oceans! And to do that, you need to know A LOT. That is why we we have Marine Academies :-)

I join others is thinking that your 65K Euros may be on the skinny side. Most people can find the money to BUY a boat. Not nearly as many can find the money to handle the OWNERSHIP EXPENSE year after year after year. In consequence, sound fiscal planning demands that you should own the SMALLEST POSSIBLE boat in which you can safely do the things you wish to do. And that is why there are better ways to “get inside” your ”problem” than by perusing YachtWorld and Boat Trader.

But here is a ref to the Fast Passage 39, one of which sold in our marina a coupla years ago for Can$65K. She was fully found, just in from a circumnavigation and ready to go again immediately.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/fast-passage-39

All the best

TrentePieds

.

[frankds]

Hi Cap there is a Cabo Rico 38 in Palm beach you could pick up for 25K.. Frank
5615885527

[Joh.Ghurt]

Cap,

as you have much respect for John Kretschmer, have you considered taking one of his boat buying seminars or webinars? https://johnkretschmersailing.com/workshop-boat-buyers/
This might be a very worthwhile investment and as far as I know, John is also doing one-on-one consultations.

In case you intend to do high latitude sailing you might want to book a trip with John Neal. This really will make things clearer, although your budget might be a little on the low side for his recommendations. He's also doing consulting for boat selection at a very reasonable price:
Boat Selection Consultation Service – MAHINA SAILING

This will probably bring you most quickly closer to your dream.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

So here is the article:

https://wavetrain.net/2013/05/16/mod...ing-stability/

Great article! In the STIX section, however, the required number for CE A is 32, not 38.

A STIX number is the result of many complex calculations accounting for a boat’s length, displacement, beam, ability to shed water after a knockdown, angle of vanishing stability, downflooding, cabin superstructure, and freeboard in breaking seas, among others. STIX values range from the low single digits to about 50. A minimum of 38 is required by the European Union for Category A boats, which are certified for use on extended passages more than 500 miles offshore where waves with a maximum height of 46 feet may be encountered.

[Fore and Aft]

Roverhi you are so right, cannot understand why people still have wet bilges in 2021.
Cheers

[Searles]

I for one understand where cap Morgan is coming from most high production grp charter boats are wide beam shallow draught ,my experience with these boats is if the rig doesn’t come out in a roll over they tend to stay that way that is inverted ,some verry beamy vsl s will stay inverted even with the rig gone .⚓️⛵️

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Searles

I for one understand where cap Morgan is coming from most high production grp charter boats are wide beam shallow draught ,my experience with these boats is if the rig doesn’t come out in a roll over they tend to stay that way that is inverted ,some verry beamy vsl s will stay inverted even with the rig gone .⚓️⛵️

Might I ask where you have this experience from? Technical data from test etc provide a different answer..............

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

In regards to my points of view on what constitutes a "Blue Water capable" Sailboat I'd have to refer you to the book "Sailing a Serious Ocean" by John Kretschmer. John spent his entire working career as a Delivery Captain and has some truly interesting experiences to share as well as recommendations for Sailboats for crossing Oceans. If for no other reason I highly recommend this read as it is so well written. I'm not against Charter Boats but I know what I want.
I appreciate your feedback.

Hey Morgan!

Bit of a thread drift. Did you know that John still runs and teaches offshore mile-building programmes?

John Kretschmer Sailing
https://johnkretschmersailing.com/offshore/

You might find it fun to sail with the author in person...

Good luck!
Warmly,
LittleWing77

Oh! And perhaps reach out via private message to Chris Kilmer, a Forum Member. He recently worked with a good broker in your area who helped him find his boat. Chris included Cabos in his search, so it seems as if you might be looking for a similar type of boat. Don't be discouraged if you don't hear back right away, he's deep into his boat projects at the moment.

[sailorboy1]

The reason newbies can not find a “bluewater” boat is that every week there is one of the threads so they all get found.

Meantime those thousands of mass produced boats apparently sink 4 times a day and the owners don't notice.

[Lowcountry]

Valiant 40. Done.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The reason newbies can not find a “bluewater” boat is that every week there is one of the threads so they all get found.

Meantime those thousands of mass produced boats apparently sink 4 times a day and the owners don't notice.

Yeah - apparently many say that our Sun Fast is not capable of sailing blue water. We've only done 30K nm over 5 years so far - I'll let everyone know if she is blue water capable after we get back to Denmark in 5 years.

[Andrew Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hamilton

Cap Morgan I have a 41 Island Trader ketch in excellent condition. I'm sailing it down east coast the end of May.

She is for sail, I am getting on and the boat is getting bigger.