Shipping a 32' sailboat from Antwerp, Belgium to Chicago, USA

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

As a fellow Great Lakes sailor I’ve been where you are. Over a cold cold winter it’s easy to be seduced by a pretty face and start dreaming of things like teak decks and brass fittings. But the thing about sailing is........ACTUALLY SAILING! While those things make for great pictures on the inter webs, none of those things make the sailing any better.

We’ve had a boat on Lake Ontario now for many years and I’ve learned a few things I didn’t know when I was where you are.

-the season is short. Really really short. Every hour you have to spend working on your boat is one hour less you are sailing your boat.

-Life is short and uncertain and children grow up fast. Every year you spend looking for ‘just the right boat’ is another year you’re not sailing.

-boats are expensive. Old classic boats doubly so.

-Owning a beautiful boat is great. Owning a beautiful boat you can’t use because something is broken and you don’t have the money or time to fix it is a unique kind of suck.

You poo-poo production boats like Catalina’s and I understand because I did too for many years, but there’s a reason there are so many of these boats out there. People like them! They are solid well thought out boats for the most part, comfortable, reliable and easy to sail and plenty tough enough for weekend warriors like me. Parts are available and cheap(er) and any problems are just an internet search away from a solution. As low maintenance as a boat can be.

I’m preaching with the zeal of the converted because we traded in our 35 year old unicorn with all that wonderful teak for a Catalina and I couldn’t be happier. Now we look forward to weekends with the kids sailing, with working on the boat being only a minor consideration.

This is one of my favorite posts in this thread so far, and I think you make great points, and I thank you.

Yes, it's been a long winter (and a long year), I'm bored, I have managed to save up some money, and I want to spend this summer on lake.

Yes, I've had much time to browse the web and daydream about boats.

Yes, I have much to learn and some of it will be unpleasant.

Your point about life being short is especially well-taken. This is something I've wanted to do since at least 2013, but there's always been some list of reasons why the time wasn't right, we all know how that goes. But the sand is running out of the hour glass, in a manner of speaking.

Let me elaborate on this one part, because I did not mean to "poo-poo" on the basic production boats, I certainly understand why they are so abundant, especially here in the great lakes. I've looked at quite a few of them and they are ideal for the practical sailor, someone who's goal is to get out on the water and sail as simply and affordably as possible, and I can respect that. They don't move me in the slightest.

I'm personally looking for something that is more than a sailboat. I want a little floating escape. I live in Chicago...a quagmire of traffic congestion, crowds, noise, crime, pressure, and compromise.

I want a place I can go to get away from all that. I want a warm, inviting floating apartment in the heart of downtown (or the north suburbs). I want to be able to take that little floating apartment with me across the lake to Michigan, or north over a summer. If I'm going to spend the money on mooring a 30' boat, I at least want to feel my pulse quicken when I get to the dock and see her waiting there.

So, nothing against the catalinas and the hunters and the cals. But that's not what I'm after.

I fully understand that I may need to do more maintenance. I don't mind that. All boats require maintenance. I'll have an easier time if it's accompanied by pride of ownership.

I don't want to belabor the point, but there is a certain aesthetic that I'm after. There will be a price to be paid for this aesthetic and I accept that.

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by AiniA

What about a Monsun 31? They are fine boats although getting long in the tooth too. Saw a couple in remote parts of the world on circumnavigations. The younger folks on really tight budgets were on Vegas, those with a few more bucks (or kronor) had Monsuns. One for sale in Curacao. At least it is on the right side of the pond. Crossed in 2019 after a lot of work done on the boat including new engine. Still has original teak deck it appears.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...un-31-3821788/

Wow, this is really nice. This reminds me SO MUCH of the Vindo down below. I will be looking into these a bit more, thanks for the recco!

I also saw a couple Scanmar 33s that I thought were very cool.

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

hey again,

yes, it is true that folks up in the northern countries tend to take good care of their ships. this is mostly because sailing is a way of life up there, but also partly because of winter, and how boats are often kept in dry storage through the cold months.

now, i find it interesting the the broker said that the vindô is all done-up new. i do not doubt this in the least: this is a well-reputed broker over here. i've never seen a ratty boat on their site. everything is tip-top. however, i've seen this particular gal on the market for two or three years now. and yes, i confirm all of the pictures from the dock are brand new, yes, but a few (the ones at anchor) date.

so many here have suggested that you look closer to home. i concur.

maybe someone already pointed you here, but the Baba 30 is really and truly a dream boat, a joy to sail, a gem to cherish and love, and can heave to easily.

i've been following this gal since she came onto the market (know her backstory, if you are interested - yes, i get scoops sometimes). anyhow, she is out of reach for me but i've been watching to see if she goes. she deserves a good home! she does NOT have teak decks (be thankful, believe me!) but still has plenty for you to do to make her happy.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/82056


wolfie

Hello!

I am very seriously interested in these Baba 30s and have begun a deep dive on them. The one you shared is appealing, especially because it lacks the teak decks, which is one less thing to have to worry about.

This is really the type of boat I want...

Is the cutter rig a liability for a new sailer?

[dreadpiratk]

Originally Posted by Verichai

This is one of my favorite posts in this thread so far, and I think you make great points, and I thank you.

Yes, it's been a long winter (and a long year), I'm bored, I have managed to save up some money, and I want to spend this summer on lake.

Yes, I've had much time to browse the web and daydream about boats.

Yes, I have much to learn and some of it will be unpleasant.

Your point about life being short is especially well-taken. This is something I've wanted to do since at least 2013, but there's always been some list of reasons why the time wasn't right, we all know how that goes. But the sand is running out of the hour glass, in a manner of speaking.

Let me elaborate on this one part, because I did not mean to "poo-poo" on the basic production boats, I certainly understand why they are so abundant, especially here in the great lakes. I've looked at quite a few of them and they are ideal for the practical sailor, someone who's goal is to get out on the water and sail as simply and affordably as possible, and I can respect that. They don't move me in the slightest.

I'm personally looking for something that is more than a sailboat. I want a little floating escape. I live in Chicago...a quagmire of traffic congestion, crowds, noise, crime, pressure, and compromise.

I want a place I can go to get away from all that. I want a warm, inviting floating apartment in the heart of downtown (or the north suburbs). I want to be able to take that little floating apartment with me across the lake to Michigan, or north over a summer. If I'm going to spend the money on mooring a 30' boat, I at least want to feel my pulse quicken when I get to the dock and see her waiting there.

So, nothing against the catalinas and the hunters and the cals. But that's not what I'm after.

I fully understand that I may need to do more maintenance. I don't mind that. All boats require maintenance. I'll have an easier time if it's accompanied by pride of ownership.

I don't want to belabor the point, but there is a certain aesthetic that I'm after. There will be a price to be paid for this aesthetic and I accept that.

Hey, boat porn has been the ruin of many a good man![emoji3]

I felt the same way 6-7 years ago, I thought that owning that classic looking unique-to-me boat would be very satisfying. And it was for a while, but that faded away pretty quick as the liabilities mounted and our enjoyment of sailing increased. Granted mine was a project boat so a lot of work went into it.

What I discovered was that what I really loved was the activity of sailing and sharing it with family and friends, and the boat was just a tool to enable that. Tools should be easy and comfortable to use, with aesthetics secondary.

Your mileage may vary of course.

Maybe these are just normal stages of boat owner development? I don’t know.

My only advice would be to not lock yourself into a boat by putting so much money into it you’ll never recover it before you’ve sailed for a few seasons, enough to know what you really want (it will be different than what you think now) and which parts of the boat ownership experience you really like.

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

Hey, boat porn has been the ruin of many a good man![emoji3]

I felt the same way 6-7 years ago, I thought that owning that classic looking unique-to-me boat would be very satisfying. And it was for a while, but that faded away pretty quick as the liabilities mounted and our enjoyment of sailing increased. Granted mine was a project boat so a lot of work went into it.

What I discovered was that what I really loved was the activity of sailing and sharing it with family and friends, and the boat was just a tool to enable that. Tools should be easy and comfortable to use, with aesthetics secondary.

Your mileage may vary of course.

Maybe these are just normal stages of boat owner development? I don’t know.

My only advice would be to not lock yourself into a boat by putting so much money into it you’ll never recover it before you’ve sailed for a few seasons, enough to know what you really want (it will be different than what you think now) and which parts of the boat ownership experience you really like.

More fair and solid advice. I'd be interested in hearing more about how your personal ownership journey developed over time.

Let me ask this question is all seriousness...is it really that crazy to buy, own and maintain a 35-40 year old fiberglass boat with some teak on it? YachtWorld is full of examples like this——and people buy them!

Are we all just fools who've allowed ourselves to be seduced by the romantic fantasy of classic lines and brightwork?

Does everyone who succumbs to the emotional pull of these older boats end up listing them for sale once they get a dose of what it takes to keep them in proper form? (that would explain the number of listings on YW!)

If we were talking about classic wooden-hulled sailboats and people were saying, "dude, your crazy...you don't know what you're getting into..." that makes a little more sense to me.

But is maintaining an older fiberglass boat in a freshwater environment really that unpleasant? If so, why would anybody own one?

What are those older boats doing floating down there at my local marina?

Did good intentions and big dreams lead them all there and are they now moored by the reality their owners discovered?

I don't want to accept that!

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

i've been following this gal since she came onto the market (know her backstory, if you are interested - yes, i get scoops sometimes). anyhow, she is out of reach for me but i've been watching to see if she goes. she deserves a good home! she does NOT have teak decks (be thankful, believe me!) but still has plenty for you to do to make her happy.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/82056

This listing is from 8/2019...it's still on the market?

[dreadpiratk]

See below

[dreadpiratk]

Originally Posted by Verichai

More fair and solid advice. I'd be interested in hearing more about how your personal ownership journey developed over time.

Let me ask this question is all seriousness...is it really that crazy to buy, own and maintain a 35-40 year old fiberglass boat with some teak on it? YachtWorld is full of examples like this——and people buy them!

Are we all just fools who've allowed ourselves to be seduced by the romantic fantasy of classic lines and brightwork?

Does everyone who succumbs to the emotional pull of these older boats end up listing them for sale once they get a dose of what it takes to keep them in proper form? (that would explain the number of listings on YW!)

If we were talking about classic wooden-hulled sailboats and people were saying, "dude, your crazy...you don't know what you're getting into..." that makes a little more sense to me.

But is maintaining an older fiberglass boat in a freshwater environment really that unpleasant? If so, why would anybody own one?

What are those older boats doing floating down there at my local marina?

Did good intentions and big dreams lead them all there and are they now moored by the reality their owners discovered?

I don't want to accept that!

The biggest resource older boats eat up is time. If you’ve got the time (and money) and desire to do the work and still are able to do everything else in your life you want to do then it’s not a problem, but life is unpredictable and when you find you have less time then you thought the work still needs to get done so other things have to give, like actually using the boat. Not so bad on a trailer boat but when you realize you’re paying x dollars in dockage to have a boats that feels like a second job....


Some people have that kind of time in their lives and so it works out for them. It also depends on how meticulous you are. If everything has to be ship shape and Bristol fashion before you leave the dock you’ll not spend a lot of time off shore. If you’re content to give the teak a quick sand and another coat of spar once a year and otherwise live with it then it’s not such a burden.

For me and my wife it was a stage of life thing more than anything. Our two youngest are in their mid teens and empty nesting is looming. It feels like time with them is fleeting. I actually like working on my boat but it’s not really a social activity and certainly not something teen girls want to do. So I started to really hate the way it was eating into our sailing time with them.

Turns out watching dad upside down in the engine compartment cursing at the top of his lungs wasn’t that fun for them. Who knew?

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

when you realize you’re paying x dollars in dockage to have a boats that feels like a second job....

Yeah, that's a specific kind of nightmare.

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

Turns out watching dad upside down in the engine compartment cursing at the top of his lungs wasn’t that fun for them. Who knew?

Lol, right on.

[Verichai]

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

...owning that classic looking unique-to-me boat would be very satisfying. And it was for a while, but that faded away pretty quick as the liabilities mounted...

So, what was the classic looking unique-to-you boat? I'm curious...

[Verichai]

I do understand how vastly expectations and reality can differ, and I understand how everything is relative. Some folks appreciate their simple, run-of-mill production boats because they've learned first-hand how difficult other types of boats are to live with and maintain. They have a basis for comparison.

The closet analogy I have to that personally is that when I was in my mid-20s, I rented an exotic sports car. I've always liked cars and driving. At the time, I owned a Hyundai. So this sports car blew my mind, it was so engaging, so dynamic, driving it was an experience, people gawked...i thought it was the coolest thing in the world.

A few years later, my Hyundai was totaled in an accident, and I was at grad school, so buying the sports car I had once rented wasn't in the budget. I 'settled' for a little two-seater that was in my budget, a pre-owned Honda S2000.

That was a great car. It was well built, reliable, easy to live with, handled brilliantly and the manual transmission was sublime.

But all of that was largely lost on me because all I could see was what the car wasn't: a swoopy, aggressive little rocket from an exotic marquee.

When I moved to Chicago, I sold the Honda and a few years later, I did buy the other car.

It's been a lot of fun, but it also has many shortcomings that make its usefulness incredibly limited.

Fortunately, it has increased in value, and I do love it for what it is, but if I lost the car to a fire or a flood or something, I don't think I would buy it again.

I think I would buy another S2000.

It's 80% of the fun, for 40% of the price, 20% of the anxiety and 0% of the negative attention.

I guess my point is that what we want and what we need often differ, but until you've had both, how could you know the difference?

Owing the exotic is what allowed me to appreciate how good the Honda actually was, even if only in hindsight.

[dreadpiratk]

Originally Posted by Verichai

So, what was the classic looking unique-to-you boat? I'm curious...

It was/is (still trying to re-home it) a 78 Mariner 28. Not really classic looking I suppose but lots of teak on deck and below. I loved the look of it and that it’s a somewhat rare boat. Very solid build.

It was a project when I bought it, but once we discovered how much fun it is to sail I never fully finished the restoration and so the last few years I’ve just been struggling to stay even with it. I imagine buying a fully restored boat would be a different experience.

[4eyes]

Originally Posted by Verichai

So upon your advice, I looked up this boat, and you're correct. I like it quite a lot. It reminds me of a more manageable, more affordable, Hans Christian 33...the same old-world nautical warmth and obvious build quality. I like it very much, thanks for recommendation!

You are very welcome. I could tell from your first post, that we have very similar taste in boats.
I wish you the best of luck in shopping.

[jbrasseul]

I would buy a boat not too far from my place, unless I am willing to sail full time. In that case I could bring her anywhere.

[einareinars]

I would love to see this love of your life, maybe it.s something for me to considder.