Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

[boatpoker]

ok, we all know photos can be deceiving .... but .... it certainly looks like it is worth a closer look. Maybe Marine Survey 101 will give you some ideas on what to look for before spending money on a surveyor.

[Cheechako]

Not a good thing, but if the boat has a dirty bottom and prop etc, has not been to sea in a long time, I can maybe understand. The boat is just not in shape to take out. Insurance may be an issue too. Maybe it was just a live aboard "apartment" for some time? If you have confidence in the design (this is not a given!) then you may be able to assess the boat, but how do you do a survey without moving the boat? The bottom could be a bad blister problem.

[TomLewis]

No Sail, No Sale.

[brianlara 3]

Reading the vendors story, studying the images for a day, only 15 1/2K, the fact that the OP EVEN had to ask the 'sea trial' question....I think than unless the buyer wants nothing more than a 'slip condo' he's headed for trouble in terms of dramas and potentially horrendous ongoing costs.
A 37 footer for so little money....helloooo!
And if the vendor wont agree to a test sail/run then he probably wont take too kindly to a thorough examination by an expert. Hell, even a good 30 footer has to be worth heaps more.
At 37ft and fifteen grand you'd be buying some very real additional costs.
Just another opinion.

[basssears]

Have you sailed one before? That would make a difference to me whether I insist on a sea trial. Our first offer on a Gulf 32 we insisted on a sea trial, survey turned out poor and we walked away... second boat we made an offer on weather prevented a decent sea trial (short motor to haul out and back was all), but it didn't worry me because I knew how Gulf 32's in general sailed and motored... if I hadn't been out on one before it would have been different as we would have been deciding if that was the model boat we wanted, as opposed to the specific specimen.

No deal without out of water survey though, that one's non negotiable to me, and that will at least get engine run and rudder turned a few times on way to haul out.

[fatherchronica]

I think he is in dire financial straits, and could keep his insurance and is afraid that because there are more lawyers per square foot in Los Angeles than anywhere on earth that if he were in an accident, even as the injured party, some lawyer would come after his home too. I would check with an insurance company about getting a short term, maybe a couple of days policy. They do it so you can drive to Mexico. Insurance companies just want your money, and TARP money when it is available. It looks le a pretty good design anyway. I did not look at sailboatdata.com though because as Johnny Winter wrote " it don't mean a thing to me".

[liveaboard60]

I tell you what.. From the pictures (assuming they are fairly current), it is worth every bit of the asking price assuming the Survey doesn't turn up any noteworthy foibles..
As far as the TV, stereo, and bottles setting about, one can tell those items were staged for the pictures..

If I lived in southern Cali', and not on the Texas Coast, I'd definitely want to take a look at it.. flk k

[SV THIRD DAY]

He's a craigslist seller...he gets 10 emails and texts per day from scammer, cashless dreamers and people looking for something to do on a Saturday afternoon. So I bet he's just trying to week out the fender kickers. But once you go see the boat and he sees that you are a serious buyer his attitude may change. I just bought a boat without a survey or sea trial and many boats are sold that way, BUT if you don't know Boats and Systems that's a sure fire way to get in over your head. Which is the exact type of buyer someone on craiglist is looking for, which is why he isn't using a Broker.

[CaptRory]

Price is too good to be true. Out of the water survey or you are taking a huge chance. And just to add to the mystery....the marina REQUIRES insurance.

[mitiempo]

The ballast ratio is reported to be only 24.7% which is very low. The builder is unknown apparently. TALISMAN 37 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

It is apparently based on the Challenger 35, which has a 30% ballast ratio.
CHALLENGER 35 (USA) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

As nice as it looks I wouldn't purchase without an out of the water survey and sea trial after an offer was accepted with a deposit.

[Paul Mazza]

Can't argue with what most have said. The very low ballast ratio looks troubling. These were kit boats so while the hull, deck and cabin might be well built, there's huge variables in everything else. Even with an in-water survey and a few hours spent with a good diesel mechanic going over the engine, you could still end up spending at least 2 or 3 times the purchase price to bring it up to sea worthy condition. And being a kit boat, you probably won't have much of a resale value.

[Island Time O25]

What is the boat's intended use? Circumnavigate? Near shore trips? Dockside play pad? IMO this will determine if this is the right boat, not whether or not the seller this or the buyer that. If the buyer will use the boat to go to Catalina islands for the weekend or from one marina to another 30 miles away the boat, barring any major structural issues, seems to be able to do that without much more investment other than the usual and regular maintenance items. And if she lasts "only" 2-3 years she would still be cheaper than a 2-3 years worth of membership costs at a decent sailing club.

It always puzzles me how some owners who never travel more than a few miles from their dock insist that their boats be bullet proof Lloyd approved tanks in pristine condition. Of course it's nice to have such a boat in any event but how many of us realistically can afford to own and maintain such a boat?

Don't price yourself out of boat ownership by insisting that your near coastal use boat be as solid as one ready for circumnavigation. Unless of course you don't mind and can afford the unnecessary expenses such a boat would entail.

IMO for $10-12K, absent major structural deficiencies (which a thorough dockside survey should be able to find) you have a decent boat for near coastal use. Yes, the ballast ratio seems suspect as well as the fact that this was probably a one off knock off of a more popular model (which has a more proper ballast ration) it is still a lot of boat for short money. Just don't expect it to be a "trouble free no further investment" ride. No 40 year old boat, no matter how good of a condition she is in, is such a free ride. Period. Just go into it with your eyes wide open and your boating dreams not interfering with your common sense and you should be able to decide it this is the boat for you.

And even if a year or two later, after working on her all that time you realize that she is beyond restoration and ditch her, her cost is still a cheaper "tuition" than the cost of comparable education in a marine trade school or similar size class membership at a local sailing club.

[rickykngo]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

What is the boat's intended use? Circumnavigate?

And even if a year or two later, after working on her all that time you realize that she is beyond restoration and ditch her, her cost is still a cheaper "tuition" than the cost of comparable education in a marine trade school or similar size class membership at a local sailing club.

It said the boat is bluewater. So I'd expect it to do offshore.
Good point. Thanks.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by rickykngo

It said the boat is bluewater. So I'd expect it to do offshore.

Good point. Thanks.

Keep in mind the term "blue water" is meaningless. A MINI 650 is bluewater, but most people wouldn't enjoy the ride.

[foufou]

How about paying for insurance - naming the owner and yourself as insured - then if you do not buy the boat you could cancel the insurance and get most of your money back.