Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

[Bill Seal]

If you can afford a 40' slip in MDR, dropping a few $K off the price isn't going to mean squat. $17K won't even buy a good used Honda. Go for it, and if it doesn't work out, Oh Well.
If you have to spend another $30K, you'll have one hell of a boat for less than $50K
The asking price won't even buy a good racing spinnaker.
I also hang around the classic car crowd, those people will drop $50K on a beat-up muscle car.

[nathanielg]

Walk away! The price is way too low. At very least have it surveyed - but that usually involves having the boat hauled for bottom inspection - which means moving the boat to the nearest yard anyway.

Remember the old saw: "Penny smart, pound foolish." If you fork over $17k for something that is going to cost you another $20k just to keep it afloat and running, is it still a good deal?

[Mithril Bham]

All of the marinas I've used require insurance.
Except in very special circumstances I would never buy a boat without a sea trial.

[CarlF]

Has the OP offered a price and agreed to put down a 10% deposit subject to test sail and survey? Maybe the buyer seems like a waste of time to the seller...

Many buyers assume that every seller is in a hurry to sell. I never was. It didn't matter much to me if the boat sold in six months or two years. And just like there's lots of boats for sale there are also lots of buyers. Another will always come along.

I've also learned after selling seven boats that the great majority of "buyers" are just a waste of time - often because they don't have any money. A few have money but just seem to enjoy the hunt for a "great deal" and always find a reason not to buy. I even once got a hand written offer in the mail with a return address of a prison

Before spending any real time on a buyer, I like to know a bit about them. What boats have they owned? Why are they interested in my boat? I also won't give a test sail unless it's part of a survey - partly because I then know the buyer is spending some money on the survey.

Finally, I want an accepted offer with 10% deposit (if no brokers are involved, there are inexpensive escrow services). And if I had any question about the buyer's finances, I asked to see a bank statement showing sufficient funds.

Sure, this makes some buyers "go away" -- but the odds of them buying were low. It's less stressful to wait for a more qualified buyer.

[Cadence]

Run don't walk!

[zwaanhj]

Don't buy the joat

[a64pilot]

Everyone is worried about insurance, Marina's only require liability, which does not pay if the boat is lost.
I think the insurance is just a quick way of saying I don't give free rides.
Make an offer in writing contingent on successful completion of a sea trial and survey, with a 10% deposit and if he doesn't take that, then walk away.
My seller hired a professional Capt to do the sea trial, I though that odd. I hired the same guy to help us bring it around and that is when I found out the owner couldn't handle the boat, was afraid of it and always hired this Capt to go along anytime the boat moved.
There are some strange people out there that own and sell boats, perhaps this is just one of them?

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by nautical62

I passed on one boat when numerous problems came up during the sea trial, so personally, it would have to be a very unique situation to buy a boat without a sea trial for me.

I once paid to have a vessel de-winterized on the hard, floated, sea trial with a surveyor and then had the surveyor say "I hope you don't have rose colored glasses, we have issues".

Some $3K later I walked away from the deal.

There are boats which at any price are not a good deal and look like a reasonable deal on the surface. Remember that most of the work you put into a boat is not something which can be recovered in resale, it is all a loss.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

I'd ask the owner about getting an out-of-water survey, which would entail a brief exit from the slip. If he still says absolutely not, I'd be REALLY suspicious of what he does not want you to see/feel/find out.

I might consider buying a boat without a seatrial but if the seller refuses a survey, no way. If you plan to insure the boat you have to have a survey anyway.

[YellowcakeMan]

Ask yourself if you would you buy a used car under the same conditions.

[CaptTom]

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I'd still be willing to consider the possibility that this is legit.

It's an old boat, the seller has let the insurance lapse, he wants it off his hands and he's finally getting realistic about what he can get for it. These are good reasons to be a motivated seller.

There could be other, unseen reasons. Problems in his personal life, hidden problems with the boat, whatever. That's why the survey is important.

If the engine runs under load, in both forward and reverse, without any bad noises or smoke, then worst case would be a rebuild, not replacement. Factor that in to the offer.

To me, the age of the boat alone could be the reason for the low price. If a thorough spruce-up would put it back to bristol condition, then it's a good deal. Carl's $10K number sounds about right, although it could easily be double that.

[Mango51]

In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Mango51

In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials

It could have been worse:

Yacht Murderer: I 'Never Really Felt Evil' - ABC News

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...vi-couple.html

[hamburking]

I have a suspicion...its not about insurance. I think the seller never moves his boat. I've met people with boats like that...never leave the dock, ever. Its easier to blame insurance than to admit that he does not know how to handle his own boat.

You have talked with the owner. Surely your spidey senses must be giving you some clue about his trustworthiness. In a private sale there must be a good level of trust between the buyer and seller. If not, walk.

If you can't leave the dock, then how about a dock sail. Be sure the lines and fenders are set well, then hoist all sail. Hopefully there will be some wind and close hauled. Then test the engine. And don't forget to test the transmission...put it in gear and check for prop wash. There should be a nice solid THUNK when it goes into gear. If possible, watch the prop shaft when shifting. A slipping trans is a big problem. Take it up to cruising rpm at the dock. Look for smoke. There should be a ton of prop wash and strain on the lines/fenders.

FWIW, I've owned 8 boats, and never had a survey or a sea trial. But I got a real deal on every single one which made it worth the risk.

And finally, before you spend on a surveyor or mechanic, invite a knowledgeable friend to inspect the boat with no bias.

Yes, there are red flags everywhere, but it does look like a beautiful boat at a great price. Sometimes it happens. And if someone is going to get the deal of a lifetime, why not you? Just keep your eyes open.

One more thing...when I purchased a car (years ago) my insurance agent gave me a "binder policy" which covered me for one day to get the car home. Might be worth asking your insurance guy if he could cover you for one day for the sea trial. Just wondering.

[msrcal36]

How nice of him not wanting to "waste your time". This guy sounds like a shark. (in LA???). Yes the price is suspicious. It is awfully low if the photos are accurate. Does he have evidence of title? Is he the only owner? If he can demonstrate he is the owner capable of selling then a surveyor could be worth the $$. Maybe he is a kook and maybe you could get a good deal. Marinas require evidence of insurance. I would think that MDR would be very strict about it. I looked at a boat in Ventura. When I arrived the marina had chained it to the dock. Owner wanted me to pay back rent to do a sea trail. There are all kinds out there. AND no I didn't....
Cheers
Mike