Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2016, 09:23   #91
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
Boat: triton 721 24' x 9' 1985 Cutter rigged.
Posts: 922
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by foufou View Post
How about paying for insurance - naming the owner and yourself as insured - then if you do not buy the boat you could cancel the insurance and get most of your money back.
That's not silly.
You know, it would help all would be advisers here on the forum, if the OP would give a rough outline of intended use.
If intended use is only condo then??
brianlara 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 09:50   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA
Posts: 350
Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Keep looking, there are some BW sailboats for sale at MDR.
Like a nice looking Islander in lower $20K.
cpt_757 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 10:26   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA
Posts: 350
Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I may go take a look of this boat today. Looks like she is berthed at Dolphin or Neptune marina. Without sea trial and survey, she will stay on the market for long time. Slip cost,, wops.
cpt_757 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 11:11   #94
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: So Cal
Boat: Beneteau 38 Nordlund 72, Marquess 55, Jenneau 49
Posts: 516
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I would at least do a haul and hold survey. Maybe one of the tow companies would make you a deal. They have their own insurance. Maybe suggest that and if he balks then you know something is fishy. I saw this too and thought it would be fun to take a look. Let me know if you are going down there I could meet you check her out with you.

Mark
Valmika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 11:24   #95
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: So Cal
Boat: Beneteau 38 Nordlund 72, Marquess 55, Jenneau 49
Posts: 516
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I am not sure how it gets away with this in MDR. If my insurance expires in MDR I get a notice from the marina operator to produce it or vacate.
Valmika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 11:33   #96
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: pittsburgh PA
Boat: Nauticat 321 Pilothouse
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to MitchM
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

pull some oil , and send it away for an oil analysis from a pro. if he will not even let you do that , subtract 25K from the price or walk from the deal. i'd also walk the marina where the boat is located when he's not around and ask questions. it's too fishy to claim you c an't run your own boat 'because you don't have insurance...' he (or you) could get a binder over the phone from BOAT US.
MitchM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 13:41   #97
Registered User
 
nathanielg's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Boat: Hunter 45 Center Cockpit
Posts: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to nathanielg
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango51 View Post
In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials
Now THAT'S a story!
nathanielg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 17:32   #98
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fl- various marinas
Boat: morgan O/I 33' sloop
Posts: 1,448
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Do not walk, RUN AWAY. The more complicated the seller's story, the less you should believe. You might save a few thousand by pursuing this deal but the odds are you will lose a bundle. The old rules still apply; if too good to be true, expect lies.
Dave22q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 17:43   #99
Registered User
 
Uncle Bob's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 2,277
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Hi if you want a dock queen, consider purchase though ensure that the seller is the owner and that the vessel is in fact unencumbered but if you want a vessel that you can sail and use as initially designed, discreetly depart and look elsewhere.
I would guess that the seller knows full well the problems and hopes to dispose of them to an enthusiastic uninformed buyer.
As to the phone call to the wrong prospective buyer, OH YEAH, very likely.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.

Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
Uncle Bob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 19:02   #100
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 27
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt_757 View Post
I may go take a look of this boat today. Looks like she is berthed at Dolphin or Neptune marina. Without sea trial and survey, she will stay on the market for long time. Slip cost,, wops.
Please let us know what you think afterward.
rickykngo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 19:43   #101
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,693
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickykngo View Post
It said the boat is bluewater. So I'd expect it to do offshore.
Good point. Thanks.
Just like not all Jeeps/SUVs are really off road capable so not all "bluewater" boats are ready/capable for real offshore travel without major refit/modifications. I don't think one can ever find a real "bluewater" boat in ready to cast off condition for less than $70-100K. Most find "deals" for say $30-50K and with another $30-50K in refit (best case scenario) make her offshore ready. If this one can be made off shore for under $50-70K total it would be an amazing deal.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 07:53   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 27
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Just like not all Jeeps/SUVs are really off road capable so not all "bluewater" boats are ready/capable for real offshore travel without major refit/modifications. I don't think one can ever find a real "bluewater" boat in ready to cast off condition for less than $70-100K. Most find "deals" for say $30-50K and with another $30-50K in refit (best case scenario) make her offshore ready. If this one can be made off shore for under $50-70K total it would be an amazing deal.
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
rickykngo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 08:00   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 12,560
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickykngo View Post
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
Worst case scenario: you die badly over several days in open ocean.

Common failure/loss scenarios for a mono offshore:

Dismasting due to standing rigging failure. This is the most survivable scenario.

Flooding, and then sinking, due to breach of hull, failed skin fittings/hoses/clamps, or down flooding.

Loss of keel resulting in capsize.

Most of these failures start with maintenance/refit issues.
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 08:04   #104
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 12,560
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

(Dup)
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 08:29   #105
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,693
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickykngo View Post
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
For this particular boat if the numbers are correct first order to make her BW capable, as opposed to sailing her within the VHF reach of the Sea Tow, would be to increase ballast ration to at least 30-35% (as a minimum). Unlike the modern boats which can do get away with low ballast rations due to their different design this one would be very unstable with only 25% ballast.

Second - rigging. You really don't want to start your circumnavigation with 40 year old rigging, no matter how rust free it looks. If the old rigging is in semi decent shape you may retain it as an emergency spare.

Third - sails. For BW use you probably need a full set of at least recent sails in decent shape, not necessarily brand new and super expensive but at least recent and in good shape, plus some spares. For a boat of this size these sails in used decent condition would still run you about $10K give or take for full set plus any needed loft re-cuts.

Forth - deck and through hull hardware. At a minimum all such hardware on a 40 year old boat not maintained to Bristol condition should be taken off re-furbished, re-oiled, etc. Plus all kinds of spares need to be purchased. And while you're removing the hardware for refurbishing you will most likely encounter water ingress at some if not all points where it's attached to the deck. You may be extremely lucky and not find such damage but you will know that only if/when you actually remove the hardware.

Fifth - you'd need such items as windvanes, auto pilots, good set of solar panels, batteries, either large water tanks or decent watermakers, new fuel tank, etc, etc.

Each listed section from 1 to 5 with best case scenario, i.e. finding good used items with lots of life still left in them, would still require at least $10K to get and installed, if applicable. So you are already looking at $50K for a very optimistic scenario. That also assumes you can do major portion of the work/installations yourself. Not doing any of that work probably doubles that optimistic estimate. And that doubling is also very optimistic.

So that is why in the previous post I said what I said.

Of course one can get away with any of the above if one's traveling plans do not include sailing more than 50 miles away from either coast and at a very careful storm avoiding pace. But at the very least such travel would still presume at least some level of handyman proficiency and thorough knowledge of the boat itself, its systems, its potential weak spots, etc. Perhaps the seller found all these weaknesses out and decided to split while she is still in saleable shape. Whence his reluctance to test sail.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing Around the World - To Insure or Not to Insure windtraveler Dollars & Cents 29 16-02-2020 05:37
Who will Insure moored vessel for 3rd Party only, in Oz ribbony Dollars & Cents 5 13-03-2014 19:13
How Much Experience Does One Need to Insure a Boat ? Missou Dollars & Cents 18 02-08-2010 13:19
How to Insure a Rented Boat ? bush Dollars & Cents 7 12-04-2010 06:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.