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Old 10-12-2016, 08:23   #91
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Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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Originally Posted by foufou View Post
How about paying for insurance - naming the owner and yourself as insured - then if you do not buy the boat you could cancel the insurance and get most of your money back.
That's not silly.
You know, it would help all would be advisers here on the forum, if the OP would give a rough outline of intended use.
If intended use is only condo then??
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:50   #92
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Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Keep looking, there are some BW sailboats for sale at MDR.
Like a nice looking Islander in lower $20K.
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:26   #93
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Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I may go take a look of this boat today. Looks like she is berthed at Dolphin or Neptune marina. Without sea trial and survey, she will stay on the market for long time. Slip cost,, wops.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:11   #94
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I would at least do a haul and hold survey. Maybe one of the tow companies would make you a deal. They have their own insurance. Maybe suggest that and if he balks then you know something is fishy. I saw this too and thought it would be fun to take a look. Let me know if you are going down there I could meet you check her out with you.

Mark
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:24   #95
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I am not sure how it gets away with this in MDR. If my insurance expires in MDR I get a notice from the marina operator to produce it or vacate.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:33   #96
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

pull some oil , and send it away for an oil analysis from a pro. if he will not even let you do that , subtract 25K from the price or walk from the deal. i'd also walk the marina where the boat is located when he's not around and ask questions. it's too fishy to claim you c an't run your own boat 'because you don't have insurance...' he (or you) could get a binder over the phone from BOAT US.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:41   #97
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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Originally Posted by Mango51 View Post
In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials
Now THAT'S a story!
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Old 10-12-2016, 16:32   #98
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Do not walk, RUN AWAY. The more complicated the seller's story, the less you should believe. You might save a few thousand by pursuing this deal but the odds are you will lose a bundle. The old rules still apply; if too good to be true, expect lies.
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Old 10-12-2016, 16:43   #99
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Hi if you want a dock queen, consider purchase though ensure that the seller is the owner and that the vessel is in fact unencumbered but if you want a vessel that you can sail and use as initially designed, discreetly depart and look elsewhere.
I would guess that the seller knows full well the problems and hopes to dispose of them to an enthusiastic uninformed buyer.
As to the phone call to the wrong prospective buyer, OH YEAH, very likely.
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:02   #100
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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I may go take a look of this boat today. Looks like she is berthed at Dolphin or Neptune marina. Without sea trial and survey, she will stay on the market for long time. Slip cost,, wops.
Please let us know what you think afterward.
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:43   #101
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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It said the boat is bluewater. So I'd expect it to do offshore.
Good point. Thanks.
Just like not all Jeeps/SUVs are really off road capable so not all "bluewater" boats are ready/capable for real offshore travel without major refit/modifications. I don't think one can ever find a real "bluewater" boat in ready to cast off condition for less than $70-100K. Most find "deals" for say $30-50K and with another $30-50K in refit (best case scenario) make her offshore ready. If this one can be made off shore for under $50-70K total it would be an amazing deal.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:53   #102
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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Just like not all Jeeps/SUVs are really off road capable so not all "bluewater" boats are ready/capable for real offshore travel without major refit/modifications. I don't think one can ever find a real "bluewater" boat in ready to cast off condition for less than $70-100K. Most find "deals" for say $30-50K and with another $30-50K in refit (best case scenario) make her offshore ready. If this one can be made off shore for under $50-70K total it would be an amazing deal.
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:00   #103
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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Originally Posted by rickykngo View Post
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
Worst case scenario: you die badly over several days in open ocean.

Common failure/loss scenarios for a mono offshore:

Dismasting due to standing rigging failure. This is the most survivable scenario.

Flooding, and then sinking, due to breach of hull, failed skin fittings/hoses/clamps, or down flooding.

Loss of keel resulting in capsize.

Most of these failures start with maintenance/refit issues.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:04   #104
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

(Dup)
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:29   #105
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Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

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Originally Posted by rickykngo View Post
What kind of refit/modifications is normally required? What's the worse scenario will happen in open ocean if the boat is not refit? The waves pound on the hull and it breaks into half or something? I've seen a lot ocean crossing videos on Youtube, but still can't picturing the worse that will happen to the boat in open ocean. Thanks.
For this particular boat if the numbers are correct first order to make her BW capable, as opposed to sailing her within the VHF reach of the Sea Tow, would be to increase ballast ration to at least 30-35% (as a minimum). Unlike the modern boats which can do get away with low ballast rations due to their different design this one would be very unstable with only 25% ballast.

Second - rigging. You really don't want to start your circumnavigation with 40 year old rigging, no matter how rust free it looks. If the old rigging is in semi decent shape you may retain it as an emergency spare.

Third - sails. For BW use you probably need a full set of at least recent sails in decent shape, not necessarily brand new and super expensive but at least recent and in good shape, plus some spares. For a boat of this size these sails in used decent condition would still run you about $10K give or take for full set plus any needed loft re-cuts.

Forth - deck and through hull hardware. At a minimum all such hardware on a 40 year old boat not maintained to Bristol condition should be taken off re-furbished, re-oiled, etc. Plus all kinds of spares need to be purchased. And while you're removing the hardware for refurbishing you will most likely encounter water ingress at some if not all points where it's attached to the deck. You may be extremely lucky and not find such damage but you will know that only if/when you actually remove the hardware.

Fifth - you'd need such items as windvanes, auto pilots, good set of solar panels, batteries, either large water tanks or decent watermakers, new fuel tank, etc, etc.

Each listed section from 1 to 5 with best case scenario, i.e. finding good used items with lots of life still left in them, would still require at least $10K to get and installed, if applicable. So you are already looking at $50K for a very optimistic scenario. That also assumes you can do major portion of the work/installations yourself. Not doing any of that work probably doubles that optimistic estimate. And that doubling is also very optimistic.

So that is why in the previous post I said what I said.

Of course one can get away with any of the above if one's traveling plans do not include sailing more than 50 miles away from either coast and at a very careful storm avoiding pace. But at the very least such travel would still presume at least some level of handyman proficiency and thorough knowledge of the boat itself, its systems, its potential weak spots, etc. Perhaps the seller found all these weaknesses out and decided to split while she is still in saleable shape. Whence his reluctance to test sail.
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