Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2016, 10:39   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SoCal
Boat: Formosa 30 ketch
Posts: 755
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

If you can afford a 40' slip in MDR, dropping a few $K off the price isn't going to mean squat. $17K won't even buy a good used Honda. Go for it, and if it doesn't work out, Oh Well.
If you have to spend another $30K, you'll have one hell of a boat for less than $50K
The asking price won't even buy a good racing spinnaker.
I also hang around the classic car crowd, those people will drop $50K on a beat-up muscle car.
Bill Seal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 10:49   #62
Registered User
 
nathanielg's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Boat: Hunter 45 Center Cockpit
Posts: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to nathanielg
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Walk away! The price is way too low. At very least have it surveyed - but that usually involves having the boat hauled for bottom inspection - which means moving the boat to the nearest yard anyway.

Remember the old saw: "Penny smart, pound foolish." If you fork over $17k for something that is going to cost you another $20k just to keep it afloat and running, is it still a good deal?
nathanielg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 10:51   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bellingham, WA
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44' Steel Mauritius
Posts: 842
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

All of the marinas I've used require insurance.
Except in very special circumstances I would never buy a boat without a sea trial.
Mithril Bham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 10:59   #64
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,972
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Has the OP offered a price and agreed to put down a 10% deposit subject to test sail and survey? Maybe the buyer seems like a waste of time to the seller...

Many buyers assume that every seller is in a hurry to sell. I never was. It didn't matter much to me if the boat sold in six months or two years. And just like there's lots of boats for sale there are also lots of buyers. Another will always come along.

I've also learned after selling seven boats that the great majority of "buyers" are just a waste of time - often because they don't have any money. A few have money but just seem to enjoy the hunt for a "great deal" and always find a reason not to buy. I even once got a hand written offer in the mail with a return address of a prison

Before spending any real time on a buyer, I like to know a bit about them. What boats have they owned? Why are they interested in my boat? I also won't give a test sail unless it's part of a survey - partly because I then know the buyer is spending some money on the survey.

Finally, I want an accepted offer with 10% deposit (if no brokers are involved, there are inexpensive escrow services). And if I had any question about the buyer's finances, I asked to see a bank statement showing sufficient funds.

Sure, this makes some buyers "go away" -- but the odds of them buying were low. It's less stressful to wait for a more qualified buyer.
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 11:01   #65
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 9,473
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Run don't walk!
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 11:24   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Don't buy the joat
zwaanhj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 11:53   #67
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,469
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Everyone is worried about insurance, Marina's only require liability, which does not pay if the boat is lost.
I think the insurance is just a quick way of saying I don't give free rides.
Make an offer in writing contingent on successful completion of a sea trial and survey, with a 10% deposit and if he doesn't take that, then walk away.
My seller hired a professional Capt to do the sea trial, I though that odd. I hired the same guy to help us bring it around and that is when I found out the owner couldn't handle the boat, was afraid of it and always hired this Capt to go along anytime the boat moved.
There are some strange people out there that own and sell boats, perhaps this is just one of them?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 11:57   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Boat: 1990 Oyster 55
Posts: 367
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
I passed on one boat when numerous problems came up during the sea trial, so personally, it would have to be a very unique situation to buy a boat without a sea trial for me.
I once paid to have a vessel de-winterized on the hard, floated, sea trial with a surveyor and then had the surveyor say "I hope you don't have rose colored glasses, we have issues".

Some $3K later I walked away from the deal.

There are boats which at any price are not a good deal and look like a reasonable deal on the surface. Remember that most of the work you put into a boat is not something which can be recovered in resale, it is all a loss.
botanybay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 12:02   #69
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 15,357
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by OS2Dude View Post
I'd ask the owner about getting an out-of-water survey, which would entail a brief exit from the slip. If he still says absolutely not, I'd be REALLY suspicious of what he does not want you to see/feel/find out.


I might consider buying a boat without a seatrial but if the seller refuses a survey, no way. If you plan to insure the boat you have to have a survey anyway.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 12:07   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Shannon 43 ketch
Posts: 46
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Ask yourself if you would you buy a used car under the same conditions.
YellowcakeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 12:27   #71
Registered User
 
CaptTom's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 2,146
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I'd still be willing to consider the possibility that this is legit.

It's an old boat, the seller has let the insurance lapse, he wants it off his hands and he's finally getting realistic about what he can get for it. These are good reasons to be a motivated seller.

There could be other, unseen reasons. Problems in his personal life, hidden problems with the boat, whatever. That's why the survey is important.

If the engine runs under load, in both forward and reverse, without any bad noises or smoke, then worst case would be a rebuild, not replacement. Factor that in to the offer.

To me, the age of the boat alone could be the reason for the low price. If a thorough spruce-up would put it back to bristol condition, then it's a good deal. Carl's $10K number sounds about right, although it could easily be double that.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 12:37   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 110
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials
Mango51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 13:02   #73
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,107
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango51 View Post
In 2014 I sold my capedory31 to the nicest looking couple from Ohio. Blonde hair blue eyes a little dog purse. Agreed on price. Gave them a sea trail. Since they bought the boat in north Miami and sailed south to dinner key marina. I agreed to pick them up drive them back to pickup their car.

Two days later a pi calls me. The guy was a child molester. All 8 moms called me too. Wanted any information on were they might be. I gave them the name of the marine. Around eight under cover cops arrested them she took out a 45 from her dog purse and he had assault rifles in the boat.

My be this guy has had bad experiences with sea trials
It could have been worse:

Yacht Murderer: I 'Never Really Felt Evil' - ABC News

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...vi-couple.html
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 13:57   #74
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 3,075
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

I have a suspicion...its not about insurance. I think the seller never moves his boat. I've met people with boats like that...never leave the dock, ever. Its easier to blame insurance than to admit that he does not know how to handle his own boat.

You have talked with the owner. Surely your spidey senses must be giving you some clue about his trustworthiness. In a private sale there must be a good level of trust between the buyer and seller. If not, walk.

If you can't leave the dock, then how about a dock sail. Be sure the lines and fenders are set well, then hoist all sail. Hopefully there will be some wind and close hauled. Then test the engine. And don't forget to test the transmission...put it in gear and check for prop wash. There should be a nice solid THUNK when it goes into gear. If possible, watch the prop shaft when shifting. A slipping trans is a big problem. Take it up to cruising rpm at the dock. Look for smoke. There should be a ton of prop wash and strain on the lines/fenders.

FWIW, I've owned 8 boats, and never had a survey or a sea trial. But I got a real deal on every single one which made it worth the risk.

And finally, before you spend on a surveyor or mechanic, invite a knowledgeable friend to inspect the boat with no bias.

Yes, there are red flags everywhere, but it does look like a beautiful boat at a great price. Sometimes it happens. And if someone is going to get the deal of a lifetime, why not you? Just keep your eyes open.

One more thing...when I purchased a car (years ago) my insurance agent gave me a "binder policy" which covered me for one day to get the car home. Might be worth asking your insurance guy if he could cover you for one day for the sea trial. Just wondering.
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 14:05   #75
Registered User
 
msrcal36's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond YC, SF Bay
Boat: 1974 Cal Cruising 35
Posts: 105
Re: Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure

How nice of him not wanting to "waste your time". This guy sounds like a shark. (in LA???). Yes the price is suspicious. It is awfully low if the photos are accurate. Does he have evidence of title? Is he the only owner? If he can demonstrate he is the owner capable of selling then a surveyor could be worth the $$. Maybe he is a kook and maybe you could get a good deal. Marinas require evidence of insurance. I would think that MDR would be very strict about it. I looked at a boat in Ventura. When I arrived the marina had chained it to the dock. Owner wanted me to pay back rent to do a sea trail. There are all kinds out there. AND no I didn't....
Cheers
Mike
__________________
Mike Robinson
S/V Eleanor May

https://www.sailblogs.com/member/eleanormay/
msrcal36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing Around the World - To Insure or Not to Insure windtraveler Dollars & Cents 29 16-02-2020 05:37
Who will Insure moored vessel for 3rd Party only, in Oz ribbony Dollars & Cents 5 13-03-2014 19:13
How Much Experience Does One Need to Insure a Boat ? Missou Dollars & Cents 18 02-08-2010 13:19
How to Insure a Rented Boat ? bush Dollars & Cents 7 12-04-2010 06:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.