Searching for a family boat

[PhillipPalacios]

All, new to the forum here, thought have been lurking and researching for the past year.
Thanks to so many here for sharing their experiences and insight on all things sailing (and more of course lol)
New to sailing, have been out a few times in good conditions on the Great Lakes, and am scheduled for the ASA 101-104 courses this spring.
We have been looking at boats over the last year and have been taking the steps to be ready to purchase and cruise with our 4 kids ages 9-16. Our requirements more or less eliminate most of the "Bluewater" boats in our desired 40-50 ft range. This is based on almost all the models we've seen for sale via the normal sites are 2-3 cabin. We need a 4 cabin at least. And a well laid out 5 cabin (can include "crew quarters") is really what we'd prefer. IF we cross oceans, it would not be a part of a circumnavigation goal, more a relocation goal. So -given that many people circumnavigate etc on production boats, we feel comfortable in our limitation assuming of course we would outfit whatever vessel we end up with with the proper safety equipment and additional sail options if we did end up doing a longer passage.
From the research I've done so far that leaves us with mostly former charter boats (no big deal, we can deal with renovating cosmetics)

From the knowledge base here I feel comfortable weighing the strengths and weaknesses of boats like Jeanneau, Beneteau, Dufour, and Catalina
It seems like all of the production boats have their characteristics, and we plan on visiting some various brands to see what we like out of each.

I've run across a Gibsea (which is as I understand it a more charter focused version of Dufour) that seems to have a very favorable layout and seems to have had good previous owners. They certainly upgraded parts with higher than OEM parts - ie compacted strand rigging etc.
My hesitation is around the lack of knowledge base for the gibsea brand that I've been able to find on the forums- keel bolts, steering bearings, rigging, etc can be easily searched and researched for a Beneteau, but there is so little for the gibsea.

Anyone have thoughts on builders like Gibsea - or for that matter Hanse, Elan, Etc that have smaller user base? for a new sailor who is certainly mechanically and technically adept, is this a problem? For instance- I am confident that I could effectively replace the keel bolts on a Beneteau Oceanis based off of the technical white paper and various forum threads and YouTube videos. I cannot find anything regarding this procedure for the Gibsea 51 that I am looking at.

Anyway, thanks for reading the novel here, and any and all input/advise is appreciated.

[JPA Cate]

We have friends who bought just such a GibSea, I think it was a 52 ft., but might have been 51, out of charter, too, so kind of beat up. They purchased in Europe, sailed to Panama and went through the canal, and hired a nanny for the trip from Panama to Australia. That was with kids sharing cabins, because Mom and Dad wanted one, and Nanny had to have one. They were pretty chuffed when they got back, and Mom and Dad had had a great time sailing, with Nanny to take care of education and child watching needs.

So, given your technological and mechanical skills for upkeep of the vessel, my guess is that it could work okay. Only possible problem is that often Mom gets locked into pink jobs and doesn't get the fun of sailing, and that's one that can be addressed in the planning stages.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

As you approach 50 foot almost anything half decent can be “ bluewater” equipped , so don’t get too worked up about brands. Decide on your budget , and key requirements ( cabin arrangements , sail handling , comfort requirements. ) ignore the angels on a pin , keel , rudder, SA debates , it’s a side show. When you find yourselves at various round the world crossing points, it will be full of Jenny’s, Bennys , and Bavs just as you’ll, see a few Amels and HRs too.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Only possible problem is that often Mom gets locked into pink jobs and doesn't get the fun of sailing, and that's one that can be addressed in the planning stages.

Ann

Well said! That’s good advice to be purposeful in our planning those jobs specifically. Thank you for that.
Do you know if your friends were overall happy with the boat? I know every boat will have maintenance, but did it seems like more or less than normal for a ex charter boat?

Appreciate it!
p

[goboatingnow]

Ex charter boats tend to have good basic maintenance ( as a general comment) as companies want their boats not to give their customers trouble , but the interiors can be “ tired “ , electronics can be functional but dated etc.

Groundings are a risk too , so this has to surveyed carefully and in the med , stern damage is also a potential

[Jolly Roger]

Take a good look at my schooner, just come on the market today. 25.4.22.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ex charter boats tend to have good basic maintenance ( as a general comment) as companies want their boats not to give their customers trouble , but the interiors can be “ tired “ , electronics can be functional but dated etc.

Groundings are a risk too , so this has to surveyed carefully and in the med , stern damage is also a potential

This is great advise, we have a spreadsheet worked up for various items and approximate costs that will play into any boat we see - if the electronics are good that means the base price of the boat can be higher, same for sails etc...
Ive seen it here about groundings : there are sailors who've grounded, and those that lie about it.

[Noisykate]

It might be worth checking out the reports from recent ARCs to see what failures were reported under 'bluewater' conditions. Quite instructive.

FWIW I'd be prioritising keel and rudder design over 5 cabins v 4, but then I don't know you or your family.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by PhillipPalacios

All, new to the forum here, thought have been lurking and researching for the past year.
Thanks to so many here for sharing their experiences and insight on all things sailing (and more of course lol)
New to sailing, have been out a few times in good conditions on the Great Lakes, and am scheduled for the ASA 101-104 courses this spring.
We have been looking at boats over the last year and have been taking the steps to be ready to purchase and cruise with our 4 kids ages 9-16. Our requirements more or less eliminate most of the "Bluewater" boats in our desired 40-50 ft range. This is based on almost all the models we've seen for sale via the normal sites are 2-3 cabin. We need a 4 cabin at least. And a well laid out 5 cabin (can include "crew quarters") is really what we'd prefer. IF we cross oceans, it would not be a part of a circumnavigation goal, more a relocation goal. So -given that many people circumnavigate etc on production boats, we feel comfortable in our limitation assuming of course we would outfit whatever vessel we end up with with the proper safety equipment and additional sail options if we did end up doing a longer passage.
From the research I've done so far that leaves us with mostly former charter boats (no big deal, we can deal with renovating cosmetics)

From the knowledge base here I feel comfortable weighing the strengths and weaknesses of boats like Jeanneau, Beneteau, Dufour, and Catalina
It seems like all of the production boats have their characteristics, and we plan on visiting some various brands to see what we like out of each.

I've run across a Gibsea (which is as I understand it a more charter focused version of Dufour) that seems to have a very favorable layout and seems to have had good previous owners. They certainly upgraded parts with higher than OEM parts - ie compacted strand rigging etc.
My hesitation is around the lack of knowledge base for the gibsea brand that I've been able to find on the forums- keel bolts, steering bearings, rigging, etc can be easily searched and researched for a Beneteau, but there is so little for the gibsea.

Anyone have thoughts on builders like Gibsea - or for that matter Hanse, Elan, Etc that have smaller user base? for a new sailor who is certainly mechanically and technically adept, is this a problem? For instance- I am confident that I could effectively replace the keel bolts on a Beneteau Oceanis based off of the technical white paper and various forum threads and YouTube videos. I cannot find anything regarding this procedure for the Gibsea 51 that I am looking at.

Anyway, thanks for reading the novel here, and any and all input/advise is appreciated.

You have specific large accommodation needs that will eliminate the vast majority of boats. I congratulate you on already viewing boats to get a better perspective of what is out there, you can't see too many. I assume you would be buying a used boat which means your choice will be among those being offered for sale. I'm uncertain what models and how many choices would be available in Michigan as opposed to any of the large coastal cities...Internet searching has its limitations and I would never recommend buying sight unseen.

With such a large and mixed age crew comfort would be a concern of mine. You might consider comparing the COMFORT factor of the boats you are considering on saildata.com trying to maximize it.

It sounds like your cruising will be more family oriented and primarily coastal cruising so performance is not a major factor. While you are not particularly set on sailing offshore those two sailing choices do have boat selection feature differences preferred by different skippers and you would be wise to take a second look during your planning.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by Noisykate

It might be worth checking out the reports from recent ARCs to see what failures were reported under 'bluewater' conditions. Quite instructive.

FWIW I'd be prioritising keel and rudder design over 5 cabins v 4, but then I don't know you or your family.

Good advice! I see the blog posts on the arc rally site, is this the source you’d use?

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by MJH

I'm uncertain what models and how many choices would be available in Michigan as opposed to any of the large coastal cities...Internet searching has its limitations and I would never recommend buying sight unseen.

With such a large and mixed age crew comfort would be a concern of mine. You might consider comparing the COMFORT factor of the boats you are considering on saildata.com trying to maximize it.

It sounds like your cruising will be more family oriented and primarily coastal cruising so performance is not a major factor. While you are not particularly set on sailing offshore those two sailing choices do have boat selection feature differences preferred by different skippers and you would be wise to take a second look during your planning.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Yes! Michigan is VERY limited in this size of boat and configuration. We’d be willing to buy on the east coast, and take a mini sabbatical to get it to Lake Michigan via the normal “great loop” routes.
Thanks so much for the insight on the differences.

[Rumrace]

The Beneteau Oceanis 54 is really a 53 First in family clothing. It’s available in a 4 suite layout and I think a 5. Kinda cool Oceanis borrowed the hull off First while its normally First borrowing from Oceanis.
I have 6 Grandkids. I’ve had 5 at once and a two suite Jeanneau. I told the older one he might fit in the wet locker.
Your situation is different but every boat I bought thinking of my kids ended up just the wife and I. They get busy
We moved down from a larger power boat specifically after a 2 berth version just the opposite to your needs.
We like Hanse and think they are Beneteau Equals. I have a 7 year old Jeanneau iIve heard the critique some valid

[Pizzazz]

You should look at catamarans as well. With so many kids (and possibly guest kids) you need the space for them to play and move around. A cat has a lot more areas where they can play and study. Any boat will do as long as you like the internal arrangements. If you want to move the boat across oceans, you can have half the family fly over or even hire a professional delivery crew.

The bigger question though is why a sailboat? The typical uses of the sailboats are 1) a solo sailor who loves the seclusion; 1) a cruising couple who love the sport; 3) a team of sailors who typically compete or drink or do both. Sailing gets boring for kids very fast... their brains need stimulation and action, while everything on a sailboat boat is slow, deliberate and pensive. A better option may be a power boat where you will have more space, shorter passages and more entertainment at the destination. You can still rent a sailboat for the sailing experience every now and then.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

You should look at catamarans as well. With so many kids (and possibly guest kids) you need the space for them to play and move around. A cat has a lot more areas where they can play and study. Any boat will do as long as you like the internal arrangements. If you want to move the boat across oceans, you can have half the family fly over or even hire a professional delivery crew.

The bigger question though is why a sailboat?

Well, a big reason for no to a Cat is cost. We are buying cash and dont have the cash for a cat, and would prefer to not finance the boat. The other reason is us parents just like the monohull experience.
As for power boating, that is certainly a large part of the lake Michigan culture, but having been on sailboats with the full family and having them involved, taking turns at the helm etc its been a lot of fun for each of them- and the fuel costs alone are enough for us as parent to say "no thanks" to the power boat option 😂

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

The Beneteau Oceanis 54 is really a 53 First in family clothing. It’s available in a 4 suite layout and I think a 5. Kinda cool Oceanis borrowed the hull off First while its normally First borrowing from Oceanis.
I have 6 Grandkids. I’ve had 5 at once and a two suite Jeanneau. I told the older one he might fit in the wet locker.
Your situation is different but every boat I bought thinking of my kids ended up just the wife and I. They get busy
We moved down from a larger power boat specifically after a 2 berth version just the opposite to your needs.
We like Hanse and think they are Beneteau Equals. I have a 7 year old Jeanneau iIve heard the critique some valid

I've seen some Hanse that look very well laid out, but have not been on any of them yet. Our youngest is 9 and oldest is 16, so they'll be with us for a number of years still- Thats really good info on the Oceans 54.
Thanks!