Scuba Gear for Basic Boat Maintenance

[Lojanica]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Interesting system. I like how it comes with a random gratuitous cleavage shot to help "display" the product.

On a serious note though I was not aware they made 12v compressors. Nice find.

With the cleavage shot the name "Hooker Max" is spot on. I bought one and it came in record time.

[Adventurebound]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;1557776]

Originally Posted by Adventurebound

It's extremely common in cave country (North Florida) to fill LP steel tanks to 3600, as it's been done continuously for the last twenty or more years with no failures it's apparently safe. Nobody stamps anything on them, it's called a "cave fill"

There is some argument that it may shorten the life, as in a tank may fail hydro sooner, but no data to support that either.

A well maintained steel tank will last forever.

Somebody had be the first one to try it. I won't ride, breathe, or eat new technology till all the bugs have been resolved. Toombstone technology makes all consumers ginnea pigs.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It's extremely common in cave country (North Florida) to fill LP steel tanks to 3600, as it's been done continuously for the last twenty or more years with no failures it's apparently safe. Nobody stamps anything on them, it's called a "cave fill"

I can testify to that. Every shop I know filled Pressed Steel 104s to at least 3200 psi, most higher. I met one guy that had his own compressor that filled his to 4200 but thought that was a bit excessive.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is some argument that it may shorten the life, as in a tank may fail hydro sooner, but no data to support that either.

A well maintained steel tank will last forever.

Since I own about 30 tanks I got to be friendly with the local hydro tank tester. The guy that did the hydro tests for many years told me he had never seen a Pressed Steel tank fail hydro and they were almost all overfilled, cave diver tanks.

He also told me that the exact same tank was rated to 3200+ overseas but for some reason (lawyers, liability suits?) only rated to 2400+ in the US. I had this confirmed by friends who got that straight from the maker.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by skipmac

He also told me that the exact same tank was rated to 3200+ overseas but for some reason (lawyers, liability suits?) only rated to 2400+ in the US. I had this confirmed by friends who got that straight from the maker.

True HP tanks are 3,500 PSI tanks and are actually pretty rare, the 3442 tanks are know as "exemption tanks" that are somehow or another exempt form something? Best look that up. Most LP tanks are made from either 4130 or maybe 4340 steel, exemption tanks are identical wall thickness etc., but I believe the metal alloy is different. I tried to find out exactly how, got the alloy specifics, gave them to an Engineer at work, but he was unsure and I quit at that point as it was just a curiosity.
I find it hard to believe that the LP tanks and the 3442 tanks are identical, but that is the common belief, your not alone in that.

[downunder]

Original manufacturers stamping on the neck tells the story for a tank.

TP, WP, etc.

[poppyduc]

I have one of these specially made units, Works very well in swallow water.
Deck Snorkel | Powerdive
No doubt you could buy it much cheaper in US compared to Australia most of your chadley is about half the price of here. Just like iphone etc.
Our grand children love using it gone for over 7 years now

[Downline]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

LOOKING DOWN MY NOSE ALERT:

We've discussed age on here many times and many of us are old and I know from life experience that many of you oldsters are FAT too. 22 seconds might be a stretch for an old fat guy diving all the way down to say 4' underwater.

On the tank blowout issue, I've worked in several dive stores in FL and NC. This CF crowd of savvy divers know this stuff but I have personally run into several idiots who have doubled up their burst discs, and a couple of guys who restamped their big 2400 low pressure tanks in hope of running into some dumb cluck who'll will run them up to 3500 +. Over the years I have trained many young guys and gals on being alert to wot's wot on tank fills.

Oh the arguments I've heard! I almost had to kick a guy's ass at 0530 AM! when I refused to follow his fill "directions". I offered him free rentals but that wasn't good enough either so I just didn't let him get on board the dive boat. Tough titty as they say.

All these idiots say that the FL shops catering to cave divers routinely fill 2400s to 3500. I doubt it. For noobies, the very best way to extend yer bottom time is LOSE SOME WEIGHT. I've personally seen hundreds of divers who can't get up a dive ladder without assistance. How pathetic is that?

Getting old is no excuse for being grossly out of shape. Every serious dive accident/fatality I've seen, 5 or 6, the disabled or departed were overweights.

I've been reading this dicussion with great interest. We are also contemplating on what to take on the boat.
In commercial diving we mostly use the 12L steel tanks for bail out system. They get used very hard but get their inspections when they are due. I can't recall anybody ever having a problem with them.
I wants to add my vote to the members recommending a course before you try to breathe compressed air. The $$'s you spend is cheap insurance.
I see a couple of members mention clearing ropes and lobster pots and other things from the bottom of their boats. Most commercial divers worldwide use the Green River knife from New Zealand for tough jobs. I've got one on the boat that I've used during salvage in the Gulf of Mexico after Hurricane Karina. It got abused badly during that time and its still doing a great job on our yacht.

[hellosailor]

Early on I had to free dive on a prop after I, uh, moored a boat by the wrong end. So to speak. And I came to appreciate the value of a really sharp knife because the first one I tried was not up to the job.

My "emergency only" knife is a small extra paring knife actually. A common Sabatier 4" or 5" blade, patiently sharpened to an extremely fine edge and never taken out of the sheath except for more sharpening, or rare line cutting.

It doesn't have to be anything exotic, if you keep it sharp. Pressed to a taut line of any kind, it will go through as if the line was butter. A good stone set is one of those tools you should buy early, since it will last many many years.

[Downline]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Early on I had to free dive on a prop after I, uh, moored a boat by the wrong end. So to speak. And I came to appreciate the value of a really sharp knife because the first one I tried was not up to the job.

My "emergency only" knife is a small extra paring knife actually. A common Sabatier 4" or 5" blade, patiently sharpened to an extremely fine edge and never taken out of the sheath except for more sharpening, or rare line cutting.

It doesn't have to be anything exotic, if you keep it sharp. Pressed to a taut line of any kind, it will go through as if the line was butter. A good stone set is one of those tools you should buy early, since it will last many many years.

Sorry hellosailor, I'm not trying to start a discussion on knifes. The Green River knife is not exotic or expensive. It's just a tool and a very efficient one. I've used it more than once on prop shafts where even a hacksaw wasn't working.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Downline

Sorry hellosailor, I'm not trying to start a discussion on knifes. The Green River knife is not exotic or expensive. It's just a tool and a very efficient one. I've used it more than once on prop shafts where even a hacksaw wasn't working.

Hi Downline... The best diving tool is also part of the spirit of this thread

Does the Green River knife float?

[Downline]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Downline... The best diving tool is also part of the spirit of this thread

Does the Green River knife float?

Hi Pelagic. No it does not float. Its got a fairly heavy blade that tapers from top to bottom. I take two knifes on dive jobs. The Spyderco I use for all the small and finicky jobs. The Green River knife when you need a serious tool, like cutting a mooring line of a big ship or fishing net.

[pbiJim]

many 1988 & older aluminum tanks made by Luxfer & Kiddy were made from the "bad" alloy of aluminum & require special testing every year to stay in service. The new version of the special test gives less false fails than the older eddy current systems did. Some tanks that previously failed are now being put back into service after having the new test done on them. I think that the current version is called version 3 or something like that, but I don't really keep up. I have only one of the "bad" tanks left & I have left it on the shelf for many years now.

Aluminum tanks that were made by Catalina were always made from the good alloy & don't have the same restriction. Old aluminum Catalina tanks are just like new 3,000psi Catalina tanks, but sadly, some dive shops either don't know this, or just don't care.

The only steel tanks that I ever had fail at hydro were either rusty inside or had the old NPT necks on them. They were failed by the hydro facility only because of the thread type, not due to an actual quality problem. Some time back in the 1980's, I lost both my twin 50's & my skinny triples due to neck type alone.

The only aluminum tanks that I have seen fail hydro were either ones that had been used as rental tanks & had a high number of fill/empty cycles on them, ones that had been mishandled & were dinged up on the outside or ones that failed from neck thread problems. I'm not saying that other failure types don't happen. That's just what I have seen. I don't overfill.

My current daily-use tank is an aluminum 63 that was born in 1999 & has no paint on it. I just picked it up from hydro this morning. It has so many hydro dates on it, that I circle the current one so that dive shop guys can find it easily. If anybody needs a good hydro guy in South Florida, contact me. I have a guy that does them for $25 including VIP sticker and fill, & even gives volume discounts off of that.

Neck thread inspection is actually a hotly debated topic among scuba enthusiasts, much the same way that guns & anchors are debated here. The inspection methods vary by manufacturer for a specific type of tank & the criteria vary wildly for slightly different tanks. Off the top of my head, I think that 3,000psi AL tanks require 6 good threads, but 3,300psi AL tanks require 9 good threads. It seems odd that a 10% increase in pressure would require a 50% increase in good thread bearing surface, but that is the kind of thing that I read in the inspection criteria.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by pbiJim

many 1988 & older aluminum tanks made by Luxfer & Kiddy were made from the "bad" alloy of aluminum & require special testing every year to stay in service. The new version of the special test gives less false fails than the older eddy current systems did. Some tanks that previously failed are now being put back into service after having the new test done on them. I think that the current version is called version 3 or something like that, but I don't really keep up. I have only one of the "bad" tanks left & I have left it on the shelf for many years now.

Aluminum tanks that were made by Catalina were always made from the good alloy & don't have the same restriction. Old aluminum Catalina tanks are just like new 3,000psi Catalina tanks, but sadly, some dive shops either don't know this, or just don't care.

The only steel tanks that I ever had fail at hydro were either rusty inside or had the old NPT necks on them. They were failed by the hydro facility only because of the thread type, not due to an actual quality problem. Some time back in the 1980's, I lost both my twin 50's & my skinny triples due to neck type alone.

The only aluminum tanks that I have seen fail hydro were either ones that had been used as rental tanks & had a high number of fill/empty cycles on them, ones that had been mishandled & were dinged up on the outside or ones that failed from neck thread problems. I'm not saying that other failure types don't happen. That's just what I have seen. I don't overfill.

My current daily-use tank is an aluminum 63 that was born in 1999 & has no paint on it. I just picked it up from hydro this morning. It has so many hydro dates on it, that I circle the current one so that dive shop guys can find it easily. If anybody needs a good hydro guy in South Florida, contact me. I have a guy that does them for $25 & even gives volume discounts off of that.

Neck thread inspection is actually a hotly debated topic among scuba enthusiasts, much the same way that guns & anchors are debated here. The inspection methods vary by manufacturer for a specific type of tank & the criteria vary wildly for slightly different tanks. Off the top of my head, I think that 3,000psi AL tanks require 6 good threads, but 3,300psi AL tanks require 9 good threads. It seems odd that a 10% increase in pressure would require a 50% increase in good thread bearing surface, but that is the kind of thing that I read in the inspection criteria.

The Al tanks with the bad alloy have been banned and can no longer be hydro'd or filled, at least anywhere I go for fills.

Not sure if this is a nation wide deal or just N Florida (local dive shops claim it's nation wide) but even the Al tanks made with the proper alloy if they are older than a certain date (3/94 maybe but that's just a guess) the will not be hydro'd or filled. If you can get older Catalinas hydro'd I have about 15 that I would love to keep in service.

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by skipmac

The Al tanks with the bad alloy have been banned and can no longer be hydro'd or filled, at least anywhere I go for fills.

Not sure if this is a nation wide deal or just N Florida (local dive shops claim it's nation wide) but even the Al tanks made with the proper alloy if they are older than a certain date (3/94 maybe but that's just a guess) the will not be hydro'd or filled. If you can get older Catalinas hydro'd I have about 15 that I would love to keep in service.

I have shops here that will hydro & fill those tanks, as long as they pass. A lot of dive shops pretend that their personal policy is federal law. You can look up the actual federal law on the DOT website.

PM inbound with contact info for a facility that I believe will inspect & fill your tanks.

[silverheels3]

Cleaning the bottom and maintaining zincs etc is a nasty job. Forget the hooka compressor. Too complicated and unnecessary. Put a regular tank in the dinghy and attach a hooka hose directly to it. The other end takes a regular 1st and 2nd stage SCUBA kit for the diver. Wear a weight belt to manage your buoyancy instead of a BCD as the little shrimp kritturs will make a mess of your wearable gear and they're hard to remove after the job is done. Doing this work naked is even better as your swim suit will also be fouled. We have 50 ft hose for convenience but never go deeper than 10 ft so DECO is not really n issue. A tank on the surface, regular SCUBA to breathe and a weight belt plus gloves and a scraper is best. The hooka hose is easily available and you already own everything else. Simple is best when cruising long term and the easy of this method will encourage you to do the bottom more often to minimize the labour.