School Me More on Bristol 27s

[tartansail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I was amazed at how good the bottom turned out though. It was my first shot at it.............

also, the dude above says he would like to replace all the winches and blocks on his new boat. I reckon he hasn't priced those yet. My boat has flat winch handles the winches are so old, but I plan on using those until they will not work. I might even do some maintenance on them when all the other crap is done.

My wife had a B-27 when we met. It was a great boat. However, those flat winch handles border on irreplaceable. I lost one overboard while working at the mast ten years ago. If I hadn't had the good fortune of finding a former Bristol owner who was willing to part his one, I don't think I'd be referring to her as "my wife".

[thomm225]

Well, if that's the case I might be buying new winches!

I did find this on the internet though with a quick search:

Wilcox-Crittenden Winches

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Well, you still may want to hold off on spending that $15-20K. Maybe the example that guy gave wasn't the best. I was all set to buy a 1986 Catalina 30 for around $20K. It was a nice boat too, but I couldn't quite "pull the trigger" on it. It got sold.

I ended up stumbling upon a 1974 Bristol 27 Hull Number 335 (out of a possible 337 built) for $2000.00. It was at a small marina and didn't even have a for sale sign on it. I thought it was a Pearson Triton and went asking about boats for sale on the lot. I bought it a month or so later "as is" for the $2,000.00. It was an estate sale and had been sitting there on the hard for 4-5 years!

I have since gotten the engine (10 hp bukh diesel) running, cleaned the crap out of the boat inside and out, painted the bottom, and am now screwing around trying to get the stuffing box repacked. I'm actually letting my body heal up from the first attempt in 96 degree heat and 3-4 hours of this work.

The boat came with an almost new jib, older storm jib and main plus a dodger/bimini. The seller(original owner’s son) also sent me the gps, depthfinder, radio, and chart plotter for the boat. The boat is an awesome boat, but it is still cosmetically challenged. I'll try and attach a before/after set of pictures. This is two months of weekend work. The boat is about 75 miles from me on the Chesapeake Bay.

Btw, I’ve own lots of boats mostly junker power boats when I was under 24 years old. (i'm 55 now) My last 4 boat were catamarans (two Hobie 16's, a NACRA 6.0, and an Inter/NACRA/F-17 with spinnaker) which I raced about 9 months out of the year on the gulf coast so I know some stuff. This is my first “heavy “ sailboat with an engine.

The paint is peeling off the hulls something terrible, but the pictures don't show that. She's about to go in the water so i can determine whether or not this is the boat for me. I have spent maybe another $1,000.00 on her since the purchase. She came loaded with spare engine parts and everything else since the owner was on a return trip north from Florida.

Tom

ps. She also came with dinghy davits and roller furling.

Here's an update on the above for anyone thinking about getting an old boat and " fixin' her up! "

After the first $4,000.00 for the boat, bottom paint, trips to and from, I put the thing in the water. Long story short the transmission got locked in reverse. Later, it ran out of oil and seized up. I found two replacements both old/used. One for $1,850.00 on Ebay with no returns and the other in Seattle, WA (I'm in Virginia!) that came with motor attached for $1,100 plus shipping. We settled for $1,300.00. He paid the shipping.

Pulled boat again, round trip $270.00, installed transmission through Lazerette Locker. Removal and replacement of transmission 12 hours total with trips for special tools, rusted and rung off bolts etc...............and lots of cursing!!

Got new transmission installed ran great until it got warm then it would get stuck in forward. I finally tried tapping on the linkage with a large rachet. This freed it up and it would work for a while, I'm hoping I can get it to the point where it will be okay. The transmission has been sitting dormant for a long time.

20/20 hindsite says next time to replace old engine and transmission immediately after first sign of major problems with a new outboard or new inboard diesel. Parts just are not available for some of these old engines/(transmissions). I was just lucky (?) to find a replacement. It also looks like I have an oil leak probably around the crankshaft area, but I do have a backup engine and another transmission for parts. (we'll see how long they last. both are 1970's vintage; Bukh DV 10 with ZF BW-6 Gearbox))

I still need a new main, and the entire boat needs to be repainted etc. Inside needs work, but the boat is now seaworthy and about to go in again. (But) I can't say that I don't enjoy it even though the boat is still quite rough looking.

Tom

[thomm225]

Just for general info, the transmission problem I talked about above was caused by an improperly aligned propeller shaft. I ended up having to replace the engine due to a blown head gasket (and it leaked oil like crazy also). After I put in my replacement engine (that I got with the transmission) the transmission still would get stuck in forward after it warmed up or after about 15-20 minutes. So since there was quite a bit of wobble in the shaft and the fact that the holes in this engine's mounts allowed adjustment, I aligned the engine to the shaft as best as I could (first time for me as this is my first sailboat with an engine). At this point, the transmission started to work correctly. At this point, I have around $5,500-$6,000 in the boat and it still needs to be painted etc.

Tom

Bristol 27 Winter Dream

[thomm225]

Here's my latest update meant for folks considering "bringing back" an old boat. The second diesel ended up not working out. Too many leaks and too much of a bad smell. I ended up mounting a 5 hp 2012 4 stroke mercury outboard on the transom with a 14" adjustable bracket. It works fine. I have just ordered a new mainsail. The boat was measured for that just this past week. The boat has given me a total education which is one of the reasons I bought it.

The whole thing still needs to be painted. I have just started sanding off the old peeling varnish from the teak. The old teak is looking good though after I get passed the upper layers.

The boat is entirely functional. I sailed the boat down the 75 miles to Va Beach in May. The morning I started across the open part of the bay down near the Chesapeak Bay Bridge Tunnel area there was a small craft adisory in effect with winds gusting to the low twenties. I ended up having to reef the main which was the only sail I was using and it was the first time I had ever reefed a sail. The wind was off the port quarter. The boat did fine. Waves were upwards of 5'+ and I didn't have any water come in over the stern. She would just lift right up as the waves approached. Again, this is my first monohull. My experience is mainly with racing catamarans.

See attached picture of where I had the propeller shaft sealed.

Tom

[bluemoose]

too bad you didn't try to close up the aperture while you had the epoxy out....

They are lovely boats. Thanks for the transmission!

[thomm225]

I haven't done any fiberglass or epoxy work on the boat. The marina guy closed off the prop shaft with fiberglass as you see there.

I have mainly owned new or almost new catamarans with high aspect ratio sails, rudders, and daggerboards with foam filled or cored I guess you'd say hulls. Boats that weighed around 250-400 lbs with more sail area than my Bristol 27. I spent most of my time on the water sailing and racing and less doing boat work..........using epoxy, fiberglass, paint, sandpaper etc, but I did watch the monohull sailors. They'd be working on their boats when I sailed out in the morning, and they would still be working on them when I sailed back in at the end of the day.

A couple times each year they would actually go out and sail! So, I am going to try and only do so much work on the boat at a time. I can repaint this boat, sand down all the teak or do nothing except the bottom, and it would probably still out last me and be capable of taking me any place I'd like to go.............it's a tough old boat. If I do attempt any fiberglassing or epoxy work it will probably be in a noncritical area at first.

It looks like the previous owner had the entire rig gone over before he went to Florida on his farewell trip. So, the boat is functionally sound. I had to anchor one night in 25-30 knot winds with 25 miles off open bay to windward and only 400-500 yards of space to leeward. Everything held tight. Of course, the anchor is a CQR 20lb plow which didn't hurt any. I couldn't get back into the marina due to the tide.............I know that's not a lot of wind for a boat like this but we don't carry anchors on catamarans so I was a bit concerned about my anchoring skills etc.

btw, I believe that other transmission is there at DC Marina if you need it.........

[SnoopyMan]

thom225,

I am currently looking at the B27 as a possible first sailboat, but I have never sailed in one. I haven't actually sailed in more than twenty years, but now I have a little money and I liked the idea of sailing a boat that can withstand some heavy weather. I wanted something tried and true, and not too expensive in case I don't have the time or discipline to continue. I was hoping to gain some insight from your experiences.

I have only been aboard one B27 and it was in dry-dock, or on-the-hard. To me, it fealt that the sight-line to the bow is obstructed. I feel that if I sat on either side of the cockpit I could see forward clearly on that side, but not across, which I thought would be an issue for me as I plan on sailing it on a river for the first season, before using it for some coastal cruising.

Also, I heard it's very hard to go backwards on this type of boat. Something to do with where the prop is positioned in relation to the keel and rudder. However, you now have an outboard, so that may not be an issue for you now... was it before?

Thanks,

SnoopyMan.

[bluemoose]

SnoopyMan,

I can say that (IMHO) 90% of the time an outboard would be easier and more effective than an inboard, but it's that last 10% that makes it worth dealing with. When you get into 6' waves, and you need to make it back into the harbor, the 10hp inboard will be slow be effective; a 10hp outboard will spend half it's time out of water.

Also, with this type of design, you are always heeled when underway, so the coachroof if not a problem (the Genoa will be more of an issue if you attach it too close to the deck)

If you find a Cape Dory or Alberg 30 out your way, they should behave similarly, as they are all similar Alberg hull designs.

Bluemoose

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by SnoopyMan

thom225,

I am currently looking at the B27 as a possible first sailboat, but I have never sailed in one. I haven't actually sailed in more than twenty years, but now I have a little money and I liked the idea of sailing a boat that can withstand some heavy weather. I wanted something tried and true, and not too expensive in case I don't have the time or discipline to continue. I was hoping to gain some insight from your experiences.

I have only been aboard one B27 and it was in dry-dock, or on-the-hard. To me, it fealt that the sight-line to the bow is obstructed. I feel that if I sat on either side of the cockpit I could see forward clearly on that side, but not across, which I thought would be an issue for me as I plan on sailing it on a river for the first season, before using it for some coastal cruising.

Also, I heard it's very hard to go backwards on this type of boat. Something to do with where the prop is positioned in relation to the keel and rudder. However, you now have an outboard, so that may not be an issue for you now... was it before?

Thanks,

SnoopyMan.

Morning SnoopyMan,

I bought my boat for a similar reason which was to see if I would actually like sailing monohulls vs the catamarans I was used to. I also bought my old, tough, inexpensive Bristol 27 because on catamarans we don't dock them or anchor them so I figures I'd be running over a few docks, running aground, and dragging anchor (which could also cause the former to occur) and I wanted a boat tough enough to handle it. Btw, it turns out I do like it and wouldn't mind getting something larger.

As far as the sight line, I have never had trouble seeing anything forward unless the sail was in the way. Otherwise, can't you just stand up a little to see whatever it is you need to see up there.

As far as backing up, I had a little trouble, but I really didn't have the diesel inboard(s) in long enough to answer that question. I have an aboard on a bracket now and although I don't like the way it looks I can move the boat almost as well as a tug can move itself. For example, yesterday I had forgotten to tie off on the stern piling so I just spun the outboard 90 degree and moved directly toward it which did draw a comment from a fellow sailor that has had trouble backing in the past.

Tom

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by bluemoose

SnoopyMan,

I can say that (IMHO) 90% of the time an outboard would be easier and more effective than an inboard, but it's that last 10% that makes it worth dealing with. When you get into 6' waves, and you need to make it back into the harbor, the 10hp inboard will be slow be effective; a 10hp outboard will spend half it's time out of water.

Also, with this type of design, you are always heeled when underway, so the coachroof if not a problem (the Genoa will be more of an issue if you attach it too close to the deck)

If you find a Cape Dory or Alberg 30 out your way, they should behave similarly, as they are all similar Alberg hull designs.

Bluemoose

All true, but it depends on the spacing of those 6 footers. My 5 hp 4 Stroke Mercury 25" Extra Long Shaft Outboard is on a bracket with 14" of vertical swing so when down all the way is very close to the original prop position and rarely comes out. (it also has an over rev govener)

Also it will push the boat to near 5 knots except if you are going say head to sea in 17 plus knots then it will struggle so you may as well sail in those conditions.

The attached picture is off Kiptopeke. It's kinda small but still, it's a nice place there. I was returning from a hike and took this from the sand hills cliff there. ps. the motor is in the all the way up position.

[SnoopyMan]

Tom,

Sailing to me is like golf, the more I read the harder it becomes. As a result, I had read that it is advisable to avoid a boat that requires you to stand up often while sailing, a it can become fatiguing; which is the reason I have become sensitive to the sight lines across the bow. Since this boat is marked as being "tender", I did assume that with a 15-20 degree heel. this may not be an issue as my sight line would become clearer as the cabin moves/heels to either port or starboard.


On additional item I noted was its narrow side decks. I went to go forward to look at the job rigging and found myself walking a tight rope to the bow. I'm sure you get used to it and find a more efficient means of getting to and from the bow, but I needed to side step all the way.


I am at the dangerous point where I am tired of looking and analyzing this boat and that boat and just want to make a purchase, which of course could prove disastrous for me. This won't be the first or last time I make a mistake, but the better the first season, the more enjoyable it is, the more likely I can convince my wife that it is something we would/could both enjoy. I am fairly handy and own a lot of tools from doing work around the house, but I would like to spend my first season actually sailing the boat and not repairing. Also, I have come to the conclusion that you cannot have everything you want or desire in a boat, you can get 70%, but not 100%. i.e. speed, space, stability, seaworthiness, agility, little weather helm, reliability, inexpensive... did I say inexpensive? I am tired about reading about sailing and want to actually do some sailing!


I had read John Vigor’s book about the twenty boats you can take anywhere... and the Bristol 27 was one of them. It may not have been the cheapest mentioned, but it was close. And, I like the way it looks in the water, its ability to handle rough weather, etc… but they are old boats and some care and attention is required in pursuing them.


Thanks for your comments and insight Tom, and Bluenoose.

Snoopy

[thomm225]

Hey Snoop Dog,

I've never had any trouble going forward unless my dodger is on then it's a little tight. Up til now, I haven't even been using a tether but I may start soon enough. Check out this thread on CF if you are worried about going forward.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nes-95358.html

Tom

ps. And for some more small boat choices, checkout Baldwin's Atom site. He has a list a 71 of them:

http://www.atomvoyages.com/planning/...oats-list.html

[SnoopyMan]

Tom,

Failing off in the water wouldn't be so bad, but the boat was on jacks on land... I think it would've been a 12' fall onto gravel.

[GrowleyMonster]

Outboards suck for offshore use, but are okayish for inland use. One good thing about an outboard rather than a regular engine is you get more room down below.

27' is an okay length for singlehanding or single liveaboard, though a 30' or so would be better. I live on my 27' Cal and it is cramped but doable. I have built a shower and I will be putting in a whole new galley, including a nice big deepsink. With boats this size, especially older ones, where you intend to live aboard, sawz-all and fiberglass are your friends. You gotta forget about all that "Sleeps 6 Adults!" nonsense and get real about what YOU need on YOUR boat.