sailing on the hook

[capt lar]

we brought our new (84) bristol 31.1 up from NY and stopped in block island for the night. winds were 25K with prolonged gusts to 30K. we were on the hook and i have never seen a boat sail on her mooring like this old girl. we were taking twice the swing of other boats. we have roller furling and bimini, but so did many others, and it did seem that both affect swing since those without seems to sit better, and those with chain seems like they were tied to the bottom. i expect i will hear about her shorter water line and delightfully round bottom (jeff), but wonder if there are other causes. we had 165 ft out in 32 ft depth - 5 to 1 is short, but that was all the room available. also, saw small sails set on some backstays that seemed to help and wonder if anyone uses these to reduce swing. the good news is she sails very well. we passed a few 30 to 35 footer on out way up. boat makes good speed in all wind speeds. we are really pleased. and for the never ending debate on size of vessel, it took us, and most others, 3 shots to set anchor due to poor holding. being able to manhandle the anchor back while the boat spun off and my wife wove down thru the field was a real help. i'm not sure if we were 16,000lb that we could have musseled out of trouble. things happened too fast for a windless. we are home. capt. lar

[Vasco]

I have a boat with a wing keel (small hydrokeel) and I think fairly forward. I'm embarassed at how it sails at anchor. This is with 50' of chain and the rest nylon. I've grown used to it but in anything over 15kts it goes from 35 degees on one side to 35 degrees on the other. It behaves like a cat boat.

I have another boat with a stubby wing keel same sort of draft. This boat sits right there. The difference is mainly an all chain rode. Placement of the keel is a big factor but all chain really helps.

I really liked the Saga 43 until I saw one at anchor . It sails worse than my CS36 Merlin. And the Saga is designed by Perry who has designed some pretty boats that sit at anchor.

[Jentine]

My last boat, on all chain rode, sailed in winds over 20 kts. until I deployed a riding sail. I bought and assembled the following kit but any sail maker can make one for you.
http://secure.sailrite.com/items.asp?CartId={C44E4774-5333-4781-86EB-367E7233EEVEREST32A}&Cc=SAILANCHOR&iTpStatus=0&Tp= &Bc=
It is deployed from the backstay. You attach the leech to the backstay and lead the clew line forward or rig a pole to jig it aft.

[capt lar]

jim - nice web site - lots of stuff - thanks.
capt. lar

[captain323]

Just checked out the site and considering purchasing one for a 32.3 Pearson. For those who are using the kit, what is the length of your boat(s)? I see two kits, one 12.5 sq ft., and one 20 sq ft. I am thinking the former should do it for a 32? Should wind speed be considered when making this purchase?
Thanks.

[Jon D]

capt lar once whispered in the wind:
we brought our new (84) bristol 31.1 up from NY and stopped in block island for the night. winds were 25K with prolonged gusts to 30K.

Sounds like you were there same time as us. Anchorage was very crowded when we got there evening of the 13th. Had a hard time finding a hole big enough for us. Ended out by the tug.

Anchor riding sail will help a lot. We have one and I use it when sitting in one place for an extended period. Also sometimes setting the rudder off to one way or the other sometimes helps reduce sailing as rudder offset works against currents.

[capt lar]

hey jon - what a sail - eh? it was beautiful with everyone lit up at dark. thats what i call a shake down cruise. fortunately the 1st mate loved it. printed the plans for the smaller riding sail and faxed it off to harding sailmakers - 3 day turn around ( add sewing to my weak skills list) for $160.

capt 323 - 12 s.f. should do my 31 footer - i'll let you know if adequate. should arrive tomorrow or tuesday.

capt. lar

[capt lar]

vasco - i'm talking more like 45 degrees - even higher. i still think i will add chain - couldn't hurt and would help with the set anyway. it took us 3 shots to get a bite in the mud. a little more weight in the bow on a mooring could help too. capt. lar

[ssullivan]

Lar,

We have a 26,000 lb boat and 200' of oversize chain. This is all attached to a 45lb CQR. We sail back and forth at anchor so bad we heel in strong winds like those you are describing.

So... I think it has a lot more to do with having that piece of cloth aft than having chain.

Thinking about getting one eventually too.

[capt lar]

is your new boat a gulfstar hirsch w/ fin keel ? i am surprised with that much weight she still walks the hook. capt. lar

[ssullivan]

capt lar once whispered in the wind:
is your new boat a gulfstar hirsch w/ fin keel ? i am surprised with that much weight she still walks the hook. capt. lar

Yes... I was surprised as well. I thought we'd be a rock, but I suspect that it has more to do with the dynamics of the situation (wind, water, shape of boat, rudder position, bimini, snubber config, etc.. etc....

[CSY Man]

My boat, a CSY 33 have never sailed @ anchor...She is steady as a rock.

Heard it has to do with keel shape....?

(Got a modified cut-away full keel, 5.5' draft)

My buddies boat, when anchored next to us in a squall with 41 Knots of wind, sailed like crazy: Hunter 380 with the fin/wing keel.

Not sure what the aero or hydro dynamic reason is...?

[capt lar]

fin keel is my guess. our bristol is the same, fin keel, skeg hung rudder. you boat is on my short list of possible liveaboards - we will read your posts with interest. capt. lar

My experience with 3 different boats has not given any real answers, but maybe some facts for consideration. Our Angleman Sea Spirit: 34' on deck, ketch rigged, full keel, 9 tons, ketch rigged, 50' chain rode/9/16 rope, clipper bow low windage. The boat rolls moderately at anchor, but does not sail.
40' Challenger: 40' on deck, modified full keel, ketch rig, 13 tons, moderate to high windage, 50' chain/9/16"rope. Sails moderately, and rolls severely at anchor.
28' Norwegian double ender: Cutter rigged, full keel, 8 tons, 50' chain, 9/16"rope, low windage. Does not sail at all, barely even need an anchor under 10 kts wind, and very little roll.
All are not using a riding sail, and with the Challenger I have tried to use the mizzen for this purpose with little improvement.
Now, for my question. As we have just purchased a trimaran, and I have heard remarks about rolling at anchor, but how bad is it, and do moderate windage tris sail at anchor?
On the Challenger, the anchorages around here are rolly enough, that the tea kettle has been launched on one occasion. I am hoping the tri will roll less, but with no balast, I would expect it to sail more.

[7knots]

What effect, if any, would an aft mounted wind generator have on the tendency to sail at anchor? Also, anyone have a pic of a deployed sail?
tks
j