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Snowpetrel · 06-03-2018, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lounge sailor

Hi Snow Petrel,
Yes, you're right, the luff curve design on the jib is critical on this rig and sailmakers usually got it right so theres that. They seem to have a tough time with the mainsail shape but with getting the finite element analysis into the hands of the sailmaker we got a beautifully shaped main this time around.
Eric's engineering was brilliant and not only did he design a complex workable geometry but his lam schedule is elegant as well. I even suspect that he wiggled an entasis into that lam so it's not just a single taper from the mast butt to the mast head. The mast step lam thickness is a bit over a 1/2” and the mast tip is a little over 1/8”. It was a pleasure to work from his lam schedule tables.

The mast is completely airtight so any halyards have to be external. I actually got the idea for the jib halyard arrangements from another of Eric's clients who had a free standing wing mast cat ketch open 60 built. He had a string of jib tangs all up and down the front of the masts of that boat and they all had that set up. The boats name was Project Amazon, amazing sailing machine.
Our jib halyard is one part to a winch and we vary on the low stretch halyards from 7/16 to 9/16 and so far no chafe issues which I'm happy about.

Eric originally specified fairleads going up the mast on the outside for the halyards. His reasoning being that the highly loaded lines needed to be as close to the mast as possible to avoid the “bow” effect. Well I dutifully installed those and in two years the halyards had worn through them with no change at all. Told Eric and he said oh, very well, carry on.
The staysail range is good up to 60 knots so far, got caught in a big system in the Gulf of Florida coming up from Panama last spring so that I know for sure. The boat heaves too nicely as well.
Regarding sailing bald headed. When we installed the mast we had to move it about 1 1/2 feet forward of the original to accommodate structural bulkheads and the like. I suspect that fact contributes to the amazing abilities of the boat without headsails. I've never missed a tack in light or heavy airs. She just snaps through without a hitch. If we are running DW. in biggish seas and a brisk winds of say 25 knots we would have 2 or if we are tired 3 reefs in the main with no headsails at all. The Hydrovane just works merrily away and so far we haven't come close to an accidental gybe. Never say never though

Short tacking up narrow channels in anything over 10 knots we usually do with just the main up, its a delightful way of seeing the scenery without having to put your coffee down to tack.
Copernicus is a tiller steered boat so we'd know immediately if the balance was off. I wouldn't call it a dainty fingertip feel but it is nice to steer with main only and the weather helm is around 2 to 5 degrees tops.
You are absolutely correct about the engineering that went into the boat. Messing around with all that stuff is almost as much fun as sailing the results.
By the way love the blog and that dinghy design is gorgeous. I'm a big fan of rowing dinghies.
Cheers,
Bryan

Thanks Bryan, that about answers all my questions for now, It seems like this is close to the perfect solution, no excessive weight and windage forward or overly long boom that plague the catboat concept. No need for a multi-masted rig and the attendant costs, complexity and performance hit. You have the versatility of being able to run different sized jibs or just the single main and even a spinnaker all without using runners like Grey Wolf Gray Wolf | Rodger Martin Design
or Ocean Planet do Ocean Planet - Open 60'
Hat tip to you both, and to Eric for making it all work so well. I also like the buoyant mast. It would be very interesting to see what difference it makes to the inverted stability. Cheers

lounge sailor · 06-03-2018, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Thanks Bryan, that about answers all my questions for now, It seems like this is close to the perfect solution, no excessive weight and windage forward or overly long boom that plague the catboat concept. No need for a multi-masted rig and the attendant costs, complexity and performance hit. You have the versatility of being able to run different sized jibs or just the single main and even a spinnaker all without using runners like Grey Wolf Gray Wolf | Rodger Martin Design
or Ocean Planet do Ocean Planet - Open 60'
Hat tip to you both, and to Eric for making it all work so well. I also like the buoyant mast. It would be very interesting to see what difference it makes to the inverted stability. Cheers

Hi Snow Petrel.

No worries and I'd say you've summed it up, it was some work to get to the solution but worth it.

Always loved Gray Wolf and Ocean Planet is a cool boat in spite of the runners.
I hope I never have first hand knowledge of whether that buoyant mast helps or not
Cheers,
Bryan

Steadman Uhlich · 08-03-2018, 06:58

Saw this photo today, showing a FSM Aerorig on a catamaran.

The caption said the boat is a 52 foot Shuttlesworth design.
I have no additional info.

daletournier · 09-03-2018, 09:36

Maybe this was mentioned on one of the previous 44 pages, I'm not sure.

Sometimes I think fate places a bigger role than we think. Being a freestanding mast fan I think it's a shame this boat never got to really prove itself.

https://www.ericwsponberg.com/boat-d...roject-amazon/

Also check out Spondbergs globetrotter 45 eagle design, such a pity none were built. The freestanding mast think just isn't popular enough.

lounge sailor · 09-03-2018, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

Maybe this was mentioned on one of the previous 44 pages, I'm not sure.

Sometimes I think fate places a bigger role than we think. Being a freestanding mast fan I think it's a shame this boat never got to really prove itself.

https://www.ericwsponberg.com/boat-d...roject-amazon/

Also check out Spondbergs globetrotter 45 eagle design, such a pity none were built. The freestanding mast think just isn't popular enough.

Hi daletourier
Yup, I agree it is a shame, the boat had a lot of potential. A guy on Sailing Anarchy quoted a delivery crew member who said that they spent most of their time trying to slow the boat down as it wanted to jump to 20 knots and higher at the drop of the hat. Anecdotal I know but still.
Cheers,
Bryan

Steadman Uhlich · 09-03-2018, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

Maybe this was mentioned on one of the previous 44 pages, I'm not sure.

Sometimes I think fate places a bigger role than we think. Being a freestanding mast fan I think it's a shame this boat never got to really prove itself.

https://www.ericwsponberg.com/boat-d...roject-amazon/

Also check out Spondbergs globetrotter 45 eagle design, such a pity none were built. The freestanding mast think just isn't popular enough.

That Project Amazon is a beauty!
Love those two FSM!
Especially given the technology and materials of the 1990s.

Such a shame she did not get to compete more fully in more races. I like what I see, and reading Sponberg's story about her it is sad to hear Project Amazon was scrapped and sold for the metal and gear. SMH

Snowpetrel · 09-03-2018, 16:01

One boat with unstayed masts that always facinated me was Tony Lush's ULD 54 foot cat ketch Lady Pepperell. She was lost in the 1982 BOC race somewhere in the south Indian ocean after a violent pitchpole. Amazingly the carbon fibre masts survived the pitchpole but unfortunately the keel was loosened and she was abandoned.

It is rare for a boat to be rolled and not be dismasted and practically unheard of for a boat to pitchpole and keep the masts in the boat. So this is a pretty good endorsment of the strength of those parricular carbon fibre masts. He had issues with them during the first leg and either had them replaced or strenthened in capetown.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...0yacht&f=false

lounge sailor · 09-03-2018, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

One boat with unstayed masts that always facinated me was Tony Lush's ULD 54 foot cat ketch Lady Pepperell. She was lost in the 1982 BOC race somewhere in the south Indian ocean after a violent pitchpole. Amazingly the carbon fibre masts survived the pitchpole but unfortunately the keel was loosened and she was abandoned.

It is rare for a boat to be rolled and not be dismasted and practically unheard of for a boat to pitchpole and keep the masts in the boat. So this is a pretty good endorsment of the strength of those parricular carbon fibre masts. He had issues with them during the first leg and either had them replaced or strenthened in capetown.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...0yacht&f=false

It's not only interesting that the masts stayed up but that the deck survived as well. The loads around both masts must have been spectacular. I was always surprised that that those massively strong masts hadn't torn out any deck structure and out of all the structural systems what ultimately gave way were the keel bolts, amazing.
Cheers,
Bryan

lounge sailor · 09-03-2018, 17:20

Heres a Sponberg free standing wing mast sailboat for sale, interesting for sure and one I like a lot. Not too sure about the draft though, too deep for my tastes. The asking price is a wee bit dear as well.
Cheers,
Bryan

2007 VanDam Custom 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Steadman Uhlich · 15-03-2018, 09:32

Romarine Cat Ketch
___________________________

Steady's Notes

The photos of the boat show an interesting looking boat, a cat ketch rig with Free Standing Masts, in what appears to be good condition inside, considering the age and asking price. The asking price is low, and is likely a factor of this being a more unusual or uncommon boat, size, age, rig, etc.

The ad says it has a Diesel engine with 600 hours (one ad says that).

As with any boat, a survey is a good idea. As with any boat, Caveat Emptor.

I like what I see in some of the photos, though I think the broker has done a poor job of showing the boat, and some photos are very poor (no good photos of the boat profile, etc.). There are more photos showing the interior and cockpit and details on the linked page.

There is no indication of the mast material (aluminum? Fiberglass? Wood?).
The designer's name is on the ad.

Ad says:
"Spacious cabin with 6'5" head room and sleeps two comfortably. Twin keel design offers very shallow draft 4' draft."
____________________

LOA = 30'

Year = 1980

Asking Price = $5,850

Location = Westport, MA, USA
________________________________

Specifications from Sale Ad Listing

Keel: Twin Keel

Dimensions
LOA: 30 ft 0 in
Beam: 9 ft 0 in
Maximum Draft: 4 ft 0 in

Engines
Total Power: 25 HP

Engine 1:
Engine Brand: Volvo
Engine Type: Inboard
Engine/Fuel Type: Diesel
Engine Hours: 600
Propeller: 3 blade propeller
Drive Type: Sail drive
Engine Power: 25 HP

Tanks
Fresh Water Tanks: 35
Fuel Tanks: 12
Holding Tanks: 5
__________________

Link to Ad with contact info
1980 Romarine Cat Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
__________________________________

All photos in this post are from THIS ad for THIS boat.
___________________________________

My Disclaimers and Requests

I have no financial or other connection to this boat or the seller.
I have not seen this boat in person, nor have I sailed on it.
As with any boat, it is a good idea to research the design to learn about how they sail, common problems and owner opinions.
As with any boat, it is smart to have a qualified yacht surveyor perform a survey of the boat to assess its condition.
I am posting this to help others find boats. This one caught my eye, and I hope this thread helps others find a good fit for them.
I hope this thread proves helpful to CF Members. If so, let me know, as it is nice to know the time spent on it has helped others.
IF you purchase this boat, let me know (a PM would be OK).
IF you purchase this boat, I would enjoy seeing it, or going for a sail on it, if I am ever in your area. Or, if you own a similar or sister boat send me a PM. I enjoy sailing on a wide variety of boats and would like to get some time on many designs, including this one.

Freedom45 · 15-04-2018, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

Freedom 45 Center Cockpit

The owner of the boat has it listed for sale, and has posted a very detailed description of the boat and gear. I hope he will add some comments on the design, here in this discussion thread.

Here is a link to the ad on CF, if you want to see more photos and to learn more.
For Sale: Freedom 45 CC - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Here is a link to a video this Freedom 45 sailing..... just love how this boat sails! Fast, easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1wJuJQJovM

Steadman Uhlich · 15-10-2018, 13:11

Freedom 44' Cat Ketch

Year = 1983
LOA = 44'
Beam = 13'
Draft = 4'6"
Location = Florida (Port Charlotte)

Asking Price = $68,800

_____________

Steadman's Notes

This particular design is one of my favorites. Very roomy inside. Nice flush deck. Nice cockpit. Easy rig. I almost bought one years ago, and they still catch my eye.

Unfortunately this seller has only one photo of the boat on the ad.

But, I do like to see this model of boat (and any boat) sailing under full sail.

______________

Link to Ad

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/73293

________________

My Disclaimers and Requests

I have no financial or other connection to this boat or the seller.
I have not seen this boat in person, nor have I sailed on it.
As with any boat, it is a good idea to research the design to learn about how they sail, common problems and owner opinions.
As with any boat, it is smart to have a qualified yacht surveyor perform a survey of the boat to assess its condition.
I am posting this to help others find boats. This one caught my eye, and I hope this thread helps others find a good fit for them.
I hope this thread proves helpful to CF Members. If so, let me know, as it is nice to know the time spent on it has helped others.
IF you purchase this boat, let me know (a PM would be OK).
IF you purchase this boat, I would enjoy seeing it, or going for a sail on it, if I am ever in your area.
IF you have a sister boat, I encourage you to post some comments about it in this thread.
IF you own a similar or sister boat, I would enjoy sailing on it with you, because I enjoy sailing on a wide variety of boats and would like to get some time on many designs, including this one.

Steadman Uhlich · 15-10-2018, 13:16

Freedom 45'

Year = 1992
LOA = 45'
Beam = 13.6
Draft = 4.10'

Location = Dominican Republic

Asking Price = $114,999
__________________

Steadman's Notes

Center Cockpit boat.
Shallow draft for a big boat.

__________________

Seller's Description

Mechanical Equipment: Rule 2000 auto bilge pump; manual bilge pump; (5) 10lbs B/C fire extinguishers; emergency tiller; manual wheel steering with chain and sprocket system with sheathed enclosed cables going to rudder post; propane shut off valve; 3 Blade bronze Max prop propeller; Marine Air Vencor Compact air conditioner.
Electronics & Navigation: Raymarine ST70 auto pilot- new 2010; Rose Point Koden radar- 2009; Raymarine ST60 depth sounder- new 2011; Raymarine ST60 WIND direction and speed indicator- new 2010; SAT2 CAT2 406 EPRIB; Big Bay repeater screen Display- 12.1 1000 NIT LED for help- 2009; 150 Watt Sea 225 VHF/SSB radio; ICOM M56 VHF radio; 5" Ritchie compass-binnacle mounted Boss MA673 4 stereo- new 2017; Pioneer stereo speakers.
__________________

Link to Ad

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/75439
___________________

My Disclaimers and Requests

I have no financial or other connection to this boat or the seller.
I have not seen this boat in person, nor have I sailed on it.
As with any boat, it is a good idea to research the design to learn about how they sail, common problems and owner opinions.
As with any boat, it is smart to have a qualified yacht surveyor perform a survey of the boat to assess its condition.
I am posting this to help others find boats. This one caught my eye, and I hope this thread helps others find a good fit for them.
I hope this thread proves helpful to CF Members. If so, let me know, as it is nice to know the time spent on it has helped others.
IF you purchase this boat, let me know (a PM would be OK).
IF you purchase this boat, I would enjoy seeing it, or going for a sail on it, if I am ever in your area.
IF you have a sister boat, I encourage you to post some comments about it in this thread.
IF you own a similar or sister boat, I would enjoy sailing on it with you, because I enjoy sailing on a wide variety of boats and would like to get some time on many designs, including this one.