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Old 20-05-2022, 18:35   #1
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Sail questions.

The wife has yielded. I'm looking to replace my main and jib, they were made in 1998 and while not weak, are showing their age. They are cross cut, and I'm planning to go with a tri radial instead on the new sails. I currently have a 115% genoa, but when the boat was designed, it was designed with a 150% is there any benefit to the larger headsail aside from downwind performance? I have already gotten a handful of quotes, but a couple of them suggested larger than what I currently have. I also get more weather helm than I'd like, I dont know if a larger headsail would help. Pictures are of the sails 3 years ago. I'm still planning on 2 reefs and full battens with the radial cut main.

Anyone have any particular suggestions on sailmakers, size, or anything else I might not be considering?
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Old 21-05-2022, 04:49   #2
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Re: Sail questions.

One person's opinion: we have a 150% genoa. In light winds it's too heavy, in strong winds it's too big. On a beam reach with wind between 10 and 12 knots it's perfect.

Given the choice I'd change it for a slightly smaller sail, somewhere between this one and our 100% jib.
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Old 21-05-2022, 05:06   #3
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Re: Sail questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes View Post
... I also get more weather helm than I'd like, I dont know if a larger headsail would help...
Yes, a larger headsail [or reduced/reefed mainsail] should reduce weather helm.

Powering up the headsails will produce lee helm, as it moves the Center of Effort (CE) forward.
Powering up the mainsail will produce weather helm, as it moves the CE aft. When the forces of the main and headsails equal each other, the CE will align with the Center of Lateral Resistance (CLR) and she will sail straight, with [nearly] a neutral helm.
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Old 21-05-2022, 05:57   #4
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Re: Sail questions.

I’d go with the 150 for versatility with one headsail. No, it won’t be perfect but gives better light wind speed.

If you have weather helm reduce headsail and/ or use the traveler.
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Old 21-05-2022, 16:19   #5
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Re: Sail questions.

You could try going down to about a 135 for your furler. Most boats designed back then were designed for sail changes, and it was only a few moments work to change them, so the 150 originally would have been a lighter weight sail. (We had a boat that came with both light and heavy 150s, and I couldn't lift the heavy one.) Exactly where the sweet spot would be for your boat and your conditions is something that a local sailmaker could tell you, or other guys from similar size and design boats. It depends on what wind strengths you will mostly be sailing in.

You're going to love the new sails, it will be a huge improvement.

Ann
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Old 21-05-2022, 17:42   #6
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Re: Sail questions.

I'm looking at going from the 115 to a 130%. So far, the best sailmaker candidate to respond to my requests is Elvstrøm for both price and quality. I'm not too sure about the materials as of yet as I have always had dacron. They sent me quotes for their EKKO material which is a recycled material composite, and DCX light white. Which is a cruising polyester laminate. Around $6700 for the polyester. And almost right at 6k for the EKKO eXRP cruise 13. It's a pretty big chunk of change to drop on sails when I haven't seen the material in person before. If anyone has some first hand experience, I'd like to hear it. We had Elvstrøm sails on the Jeanneau 57, sadly destroyed in a hurricane in Cabo. They were incredibly strong, only the clew was ripped up on the main.
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Old 21-05-2022, 18:33   #7
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Re: Sail questions.

I’d say go for the 150 - keep the old one and change out when you’re going to be battling high headwinds for days.
Of course, it depends on your typical weather. In my area, 15 knots is a really nice wind, and relatively rare. Most of the sailing season you’re lucky to see 10. Now if you were cruising the Caribbean, 20-25 would be more typical, thus I’d size down a bit……overall though, most of the time you’re wishing for more, and can always reef if you’re wishing for less ;-)

Finally, if you get the 150 and really aren’t happy, you can have the sail recut.

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Old 21-05-2022, 18:58   #8
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Re: Sail questions.

I'm out of St. Joseph MI, so the east side of the lake towards the south, winds are most often from the west or north. Generally wherever the wind is coming from, that's where I'm trying to go. Downwind is a luxury, usually on the way home, in which case, I usually fly a spinnaker. Additionally, if there is 2 sailboats headed in the same direction, it's a race. Size and class doesn't matter. Upwind performance is much more useful than downwind for me.
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Old 21-05-2022, 19:30   #9
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Re: Sail questions.

We just got new sails for our Catalina 350. We did crosscut for the main, and tri radial for the genoa (135%). While our sailmaker said a tri radial main would be nice to have as well, we'd get more bang for the buck doing tri radial on the genoa only. Dimension C-Breeze CB351 fabric on the main and Dimension Proradial PR344/284 on the genoa. Our boat is in Erie, and we sail it up to Lake Huron and Michigan each summer. Can't wait to get them on the boat and try them out. We launch in a couple of days.

Concerning a sail maker, our "local" loft is up near Burlington Vt. Vermont Sailing Partners in Winooski, Vt. We've been dealing with that business for a number of years now. Can't say enough good about him. This is the second set of sails Bill has made for us. Everything is designed, cut and sewn in-house. He won't be the cheapest, but he won't be the most expensive either. I don't bother to get quotes from anyone else anymore, as I can trust he'll charge a fair price for great sails.
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Old 21-05-2022, 23:12   #10
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Re: Sail questions.

When my boat was built they seemed to love big genoas. But my boat does better upwind with the "working jib," which is pretty much a 100. Off the wind the Genoa is the better choice. I know that doesn't help you much! Perhaps go in between with the 135 as Ann mentioned would be the best compromise.
I have a full battened main but when I get a new one I think I'll have a talk with the sailmaker; I think having the lower 2 battens not full may be a better way to go.
As far as weather helm, you may want to wait and see how she is with the new main. For now you may be sheeting in the main too hard or you may need to reef earlier.
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Old 22-05-2022, 16:15   #11
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Re: Sail questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sesmith View Post
We just got new sails for our Catalina 350. We did crosscut for the main, and tri radial for the genoa (135%). While our sailmaker said a tri radial main would be nice to have as well, we'd get more bang for the buck doing tri radial on the genoa only. Dimension C-Breeze CB351 fabric on the main and Dimension Proradial PR344/284 on the genoa. Our boat is in Erie, and we sail it up to Lake Huron and Michigan each summer. Can't wait to get them on the boat and try them out. We launch in a couple of days.

Concerning a sail maker, our "local" loft is up near Burlington Vt. Vermont Sailing Partners in Winooski, Vt. We've been dealing with that business for a number of years now. Can't say enough good about him. This is the second set of sails Bill has made for us. Everything is designed, cut and sewn in-house. He won't be the cheapest, but he won't be the most expensive either. I don't bother to get quotes from anyone else anymore, as I can trust he'll charge a fair price for great sails.
Good service after the sale as well. The boat I bought had his sails on it and I emailed and asked several questions about reefing. He responded immediately and was very helpful. Seems like a great guy to work with.

Drew
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Old 25-05-2022, 17:06   #12
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Re: Sail questions.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I had hoped to hear some personal experiences with this sailcloth, if you can even call it a cloth at this point, it's more of a reinforced plastic sheet. They sent me a picture of the material samples they had on hand. I'm leaning towards the XRP. They say the durability of both is very similar, and it is mainly the production method that is different. Only a $600 difference in cost between the finished products. XRP being less expensive. I'm also opting for a 120% genoa, just a bit bigger than what I have now.

Still cheaper than replacing a diesel.
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