Sail questions.

[Greatest Lakes]

The wife has yielded. I'm looking to replace my main and jib, they were made in 1998 and while not weak, are showing their age. They are cross cut, and I'm planning to go with a tri radial instead on the new sails. I currently have a 115% genoa, but when the boat was designed, it was designed with a 150% is there any benefit to the larger headsail aside from downwind performance? I have already gotten a handful of quotes, but a couple of them suggested larger than what I currently have. I also get more weather helm than I'd like, I dont know if a larger headsail would help. Pictures are of the sails 3 years ago. I'm still planning on 2 reefs and full battens with the radial cut main.

Anyone have any particular suggestions on sailmakers, size, or anything else I might not be considering?

[Mirage35]

One person's opinion: we have a 150% genoa. In light winds it's too heavy, in strong winds it's too big. On a beam reach with wind between 10 and 12 knots it's perfect.

Given the choice I'd change it for a slightly smaller sail, somewhere between this one and our 100% jib.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

... I also get more weather helm than I'd like, I dont know if a larger headsail would help...

Yes, a larger headsail [or reduced/reefed mainsail] should reduce weather helm.

Powering up the headsails will produce lee helm, as it moves the Center of Effort (CE) forward.
Powering up the mainsail will produce weather helm, as it moves the CE aft. When the forces of the main and headsails equal each other, the CE will align with the Center of Lateral Resistance (CLR) and she will sail straight, with [nearly] a neutral helm.

[Tetepare]

I’d go with the 150 for versatility with one headsail. No, it won’t be perfect but gives better light wind speed.

If you have weather helm reduce headsail and/ or use the traveler.

[JPA Cate]

You could try going down to about a 135 for your furler. Most boats designed back then were designed for sail changes, and it was only a few moments work to change them, so the 150 originally would have been a lighter weight sail. (We had a boat that came with both light and heavy 150s, and I couldn't lift the heavy one.) Exactly where the sweet spot would be for your boat and your conditions is something that a local sailmaker could tell you, or other guys from similar size and design boats. It depends on what wind strengths you will mostly be sailing in.

You're going to love the new sails, it will be a huge improvement.

Ann

[Greatest Lakes]

I'm looking at going from the 115 to a 130%. So far, the best sailmaker candidate to respond to my requests is Elvstrøm for both price and quality. I'm not too sure about the materials as of yet as I have always had dacron. They sent me quotes for their EKKO material which is a recycled material composite, and DCX light white. Which is a cruising polyester laminate. Around $6700 for the polyester. And almost right at 6k for the EKKO eXRP cruise 13. It's a pretty big chunk of change to drop on sails when I haven't seen the material in person before. If anyone has some first hand experience, I'd like to hear it. We had Elvstrøm sails on the Jeanneau 57, sadly destroyed in a hurricane in Cabo. They were incredibly strong, only the clew was ripped up on the main.

[mlydon]

I’d say go for the 150 - keep the old one and change out when you’re going to be battling high headwinds for days.
Of course, it depends on your typical weather. In my area, 15 knots is a really nice wind, and relatively rare. Most of the sailing season you’re lucky to see 10. Now if you were cruising the Caribbean, 20-25 would be more typical, thus I’d size down a bit……overall though, most of the time you’re wishing for more, and can always reef if you’re wishing for less ;-)

Finally, if you get the 150 and really aren’t happy, you can have the sail recut.

Matt

[Greatest Lakes]

I'm out of St. Joseph MI, so the east side of the lake towards the south, winds are most often from the west or north. Generally wherever the wind is coming from, that's where I'm trying to go. Downwind is a luxury, usually on the way home, in which case, I usually fly a spinnaker. Additionally, if there is 2 sailboats headed in the same direction, it's a race. Size and class doesn't matter. Upwind performance is much more useful than downwind for me.

[sesmith]

We just got new sails for our Catalina 350. We did crosscut for the main, and tri radial for the genoa (135%). While our sailmaker said a tri radial main would be nice to have as well, we'd get more bang for the buck doing tri radial on the genoa only. Dimension C-Breeze CB351 fabric on the main and Dimension Proradial PR344/284 on the genoa. Our boat is in Erie, and we sail it up to Lake Huron and Michigan each summer. Can't wait to get them on the boat and try them out. We launch in a couple of days.

Concerning a sail maker, our "local" loft is up near Burlington Vt. Vermont Sailing Partners in Winooski, Vt. We've been dealing with that business for a number of years now. Can't say enough good about him. This is the second set of sails Bill has made for us. Everything is designed, cut and sewn in-house. He won't be the cheapest, but he won't be the most expensive either. I don't bother to get quotes from anyone else anymore, as I can trust he'll charge a fair price for great sails.

[Don C L]

When my boat was built they seemed to love big genoas. But my boat does better upwind with the "working jib," which is pretty much a 100. Off the wind the Genoa is the better choice. I know that doesn't help you much! Perhaps go in between with the 135 as Ann mentioned would be the best compromise.
I have a full battened main but when I get a new one I think I'll have a talk with the sailmaker; I think having the lower 2 battens not full may be a better way to go.
As far as weather helm, you may want to wait and see how she is with the new main. For now you may be sheeting in the main too hard or you may need to reef earlier.

[Fatbob]

Originally Posted by sesmith

We just got new sails for our Catalina 350. We did crosscut for the main, and tri radial for the genoa (135%). While our sailmaker said a tri radial main would be nice to have as well, we'd get more bang for the buck doing tri radial on the genoa only. Dimension C-Breeze CB351 fabric on the main and Dimension Proradial PR344/284 on the genoa. Our boat is in Erie, and we sail it up to Lake Huron and Michigan each summer. Can't wait to get them on the boat and try them out. We launch in a couple of days.

Concerning a sail maker, our "local" loft is up near Burlington Vt. Vermont Sailing Partners in Winooski, Vt. We've been dealing with that business for a number of years now. Can't say enough good about him. This is the second set of sails Bill has made for us. Everything is designed, cut and sewn in-house. He won't be the cheapest, but he won't be the most expensive either. I don't bother to get quotes from anyone else anymore, as I can trust he'll charge a fair price for great sails.

Good service after the sale as well. The boat I bought had his sails on it and I emailed and asked several questions about reefing. He responded immediately and was very helpful. Seems like a great guy to work with.

Drew

[Greatest Lakes]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I had hoped to hear some personal experiences with this sailcloth, if you can even call it a cloth at this point, it's more of a reinforced plastic sheet. They sent me a picture of the material samples they had on hand. I'm leaning towards the XRP. They say the durability of both is very similar, and it is mainly the production method that is different. Only a $600 difference in cost between the finished products. XRP being less expensive. I'm also opting for a 120% genoa, just a bit bigger than what I have now.

Still cheaper than replacing a diesel.

[Greatest Lakes]

New sails arrived on Friday, and as there was very little information or pictures on Elvstrøm Ekko material or their sails in general, I thought I'd post these.

They arrived with new battens in a large, beaten box. The sail bags themselves are exceptionally well made. Both sails included documentation and the sails themselves have something akin to serial number tags. The material seems to be very tough, and thinner than the original dacron. Seems to be roughly the same weight. Selden adjustable batten holders. Substantial reinforcement at head, tack and clew. Reefing points are well made. Stitching is flawless. No skipped stitches found anywhere. The main has fewer mast guides than the original, and as such, the flakes are much harder to do, I'm very likely going to need a new, larger sailcover to guarantee protection during storage. The sail also came with a long bit of velcro on each side of a strap to help guide and seat the clew of the main near the boom. I had never had a loose foot main that was not in mast furling, so I didn't know what this was for until contacting AJ Miceli, Sailmaker American Cruising Sails. Inc. Who is one of the Elvstrøm service people in the US.

The new genoa is 120% the head and tack are two layers of comparatively wide strap material. I had to hunt for different shackles, and still need to change some hardware to a shorter fitting at the furler spool itself. I found it very difficult to roll up on the furling so that the UV layer covered as intended. It took a lot of tension on the sheet while rolling. It may go better after some use. The clew is well made and protected.

Hope to have some action pictures soon. The weather in the midwest is not cooperating this weekend.

[Calif.Ted]

Recently got a new 150 and found it easier if I furled "in stages" as approaching the harbor. Furl down to 120 and let the wind "snug" it up for awhile, then some more, took a lot of the effort out of getting it tight enough for the sunband to cover. The mainsail has taken about a year to relax enough to drop and cover easily. You'll like loosefoot sail for it's ease of adjustment, mine uses a slug at the clew to keep it down on the boom.

[Greatest Lakes]

Getting a slug for the boom seems like a good idea compared to the strap. I got a piece of 1/4" dyneema for the clew to withstand the extra strain, but the stuff is so slippery, it slips out of the jam cleat. I'm going to have to think of something else.