Sail Boats over 50ft

[Douglas L Hale]

Any one have any experience with the Dyanmique sail boats, this one is 62 ft. They say it is set up for short handed sailing, (couple). Thinking of making a jump for a live aboard. Pacific NW sailor.Or is this wishful thinking for husband and wife.

[Weyalan]

I have been on board a couple of Dynamique 62 sail boats ("Helsal V" and "Magic Miles"), and have sailed a few hours the latter. They go ok in plenty of wind, but are pretty slow less than 15 knots and very slow in less than 10 knots. 25 knots, on a broad reach, you will have a smile on your face.

These are big, heavy boats. I, personally, would not consider them ideal, or even suitable, for short handed sailing. I guess with sufficient application of dollars, you could make them ok for short handed sailing, but you would be wanting electric winches for halyards, headsails and mainsail as a bare minimum. I will also say that both the Dynamiques I say were built in, I think, the 1980s and both had some fairly significant osmosis blistering in the hull, not to mention they were getting pretty tired and needed a lot of money spent on them.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Douglas L Hale

Any one have any experience with the Dyanmique sail boats, this one is 62 ft. They say it is set up for short handed sailing, (couple). Thinking of making a jump for a live aboard. Pacific NW sailor.Or is this wishful thinking for husband and wife.

62 feet is a LOT of boat for two people. Particular if you don't have a lot of time handling 50+ footers.

Its also an incredible amount of room for two people.

[Sondor]

I wouldn't personally feel safe on a boat that I couldn't man-handle the equipment/sails on if the electric-assists failed. Others feel, well, other-wise.

[carstenb]

You don't mention how experienced you are. I have to agree that if you don't have a lot (meaning a lot) or experience sailing that big a boat short-handed, it is going to be a bear to sail.

Aside from handling the boat (and probably way too much space for only two people) there is also the question of how many marinas you can get the damn thing into.

Answer is not many.

Why do you feel you need something that big? To each his own - but that is one big mama

[poiu]

I have a big boat and will stick up for them. Comfort and motion at sea is far better, especially if the boat is heavy. More stable in the anchorage, faster max hull speed, more space for people, kit and junk etc.

Downside is they cost a bit more to own and run. Not a lot more contrary to what many believe. They are more hassle to maintain, but again not much more. After all, you have the same number and complexity of stuff on most mid sized boats (engine, genset, mast, sails, furling equipment, dingy, outboard etc). Some harbours and marinas will not be accessible because of lenght (a lot in Greece for example) and sometimes draft will restrict you.

Non issues are handling and berthing. I was surprised to find this the case, but it really is. All equipment is best if it is powered. All mine is including furling and I have manual back up too for everything. Even the jib winch works fine with a winch handle, it's just a bit heavy and slow. I don't have power for sail hoisting, but use an electric drill for that. Most boats are dependent on power anyway. Try to lift an anchor by hand or to sail for long without an autopilot on more than 35' boat. Not an option. Putting sails away is fine even on mine with two people. If I were solo and had to get one down for heaven knows what unlikely reason, it would have to be cut away as I will not be able to do it. But this will apply also to a much smaller boat.

It is quite common for a couple of professional crew to run boats up to 90' say, so your little 62ft-er should be a doddle in comparison.

[TJ D]

Hi, I'm with Poiu on the big boat issue. We sail a very powerful 55 footer around (blue water) with just the two of us, with all manual winches save one small electric for the main halyard, and that's not really necessary either.

Times have changed. I used to be in the camp that the biggest boat that somebody should have is one on which they can haul the anchor by hand, but the kit really is much more reliable these days, and sailhandling systems have evolved in a big way.

We use an Antal external track for the main, and a beefy furler for the jib. I singlehand the boat without a problem.

Now, to echo some other advice, these big boats are not for rookies, and you didn't mention your experience, so that could be an issue or not.

Yes, marinas are a problem in places, as is draft, but it can be planned around.

We count on 200 mile days passagemaking, even in lighter air. Our last longish passage was 1400 miles in a shade over 6 days, with winds never exceeding 15 knots-this was just us two and the dog, working sails only, with the autopilot steering all but the first and last mile. That's awfully hard to do on a normal 35-40 odd foot cruising boat. The speed potential of a longer waterline makes weather routing a lot more practical, and bigger boats are less prone to knockdowns than their smaller cousins when it does get really gnarly out.

So, if you're comfortable with the power of the Dynamique, and don't mind to throw the money required to update her sail handling systems to something more modern than she came with, (and you've got relevant skills!!) I say go for it.

TJ

[captain58sailin]

I am an advocate for the bigger boat also, the proviso being the skill to handle her. I was originally looking at a 70' vessel for the wife and me, but the owner wanted too much money for her. The 53' fits us fine, we do hire 1 crewman when we go out commercial fishing, but that is for handling the fish, not the boat.

[Polux]

Bigger or smaller the weight is what matters most since the sail area needed will be strongly related with the weight (and wet area of the boat). Lighter boats need less sail area, have smaller, lighter and easy to handle sails.

Also modern boats (that are lighter) come now with the rigging more adapted to solo sail then old ones: Winches near the steering wheel, electric winches with complete control (forward and backward) at the steering pod (or on a portable command around the neck), forward sail on a traveler, German rigging on the mainsheet and so on, not to speak of expensive hydraulic main sheet systems like the ones that are used on the Swan.

For me the limiting factor is the size and weight of the sails. I don't think it is practical to solo sail a boat with sails that cannot be carried with some ease by a single person. Everything can work fine till the moment you need to substitute a sail or taking it out. If the weight is a problem to do it alone, then the boat is too big to be sailed solo at least on passage.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by Polux

For me the limiting factor is the size and weight of the sails. I don't think it is practical to solo sail a boat with sails that cannot be carried with some ease by a single person. Everything can work fine till the moment you need to substitute a sail or taking it out. If the weight is a problem to do it alone, then the boat is too big to be sailed solo at least on passage.

Alone with power assist or alone, by hand? Granted sail weight is considerable, at least for conventional cruising weight Dacron, for 50+ sloops/cutters.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Polux

For me the limiting factor is the size and weight of the sails. I don't think it is practical to solo sail a boat with sails that cannot be carried with some ease by a single person. Everything can work fine till the moment you need to substitute a sail or taking it out. If the weight is a problem to do it alone, then the boat is too big to be sailed solo at least on passage.

I think this is really an academic rather than a practical issue as most people with a large cruising boat will not dream of changing sails at sea. All sails need to be on furlers or capable of reefing away. Maybe if you are on a VO65 or similar with an army of manpower, then you will do it the performance purist's way.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by poiu

I think this is really an academic rather than a practical issue as most people with a large cruising boat will not dream of changing sails at sea. All sails need to be on furlers or capable of reefing away. Maybe if you are on a VO65 or similar with an army of manpower, then you will do it the performance purist's way.

I agree. Other than on a pure race boat with lots of crew I haven't seen a boat over 50' with anything but furler sails in decades. It just doesn't exist in the real world. And even on maxi's they are going to captive luff furlers on the sails and lazy jacks onthe mains. They just make sail handeling much easier.

a properly rigged large boat is a dream to sail. I actually think it is much easier than a small boat. Since there is no assumption that manpower will be used where finess can be. Winches are properly sized, and electric. Running rigging is routed properly, clutches abound, it's just easier.

Onthe other hand big powerful boats are also dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, and I wouldn't recommend stepping into something this large as a first boat. Or if you choose to do so hire a captain for at least a year. It will take that long to really get a feel for everything. And while there is plenty of room for error, mistakes cost more.

[FlightPlan]

I agree with all the pro big boat posts. My wife and I handle our 58 very well together. I think our biggest issue is docking in shallow water marinas with the board totally up in the trunk. It is like steering a spoon with our 'whale bottom'. Our gross weight of 90K lbs. requires us to plan well ahead and take it slow maneuvering in tight marinas. Slow is our friend in tight fairways. Our air draft keeps us out of the ditch, but I don't like that in the first place. In May last year we transited to Nassau from Fort Lauderdale in 25 knt. winds and 14 footers; no problem. It was a sleigh ride. We like the space as well.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by poiu

I think this is really an academic rather than a practical issue as most people with a large cruising boat will not dream of changing sails at sea. All sails need to be on furlers or capable of reefing away. Maybe if you are on a VO65 or similar with an army of manpower, then you will do it the performance purist's way.

Yes, that is what I said, till the moment things go wrong. Fine for coastal cruising but on passage you have chances that things go wrong with sails: Damaged sails or damaged furler and a flapping sail that have to be taken down not to compromise the rig on strong winds.

You may also have the need to replace a damaged sail on a furler (on the sea) by another one.

Solo sailors on Open 60's have all frontal sails on furlers but not always things go well and they have the need from time to time to take the sails down for repairs or substitution, but an Open 60 only weights 8/9000 kgs the sails are not that heavy and some use special systems to move the sails more easily. Anyway they are athletes and not guys over the 60's.

[Weyalan]

I don't think anyone is doubting that large sailboats can be sailed short handed. But in the case specifically of the Dynamique 62... these were, as far as I can see, designed for the charter fleet (lots of cabins and heads) and as such were not set up with short-handed sailing in mind. The one that I sailed on had, from memory, a large genoa on a furler and a staysail, also on a furler. The couple that owned it did sail it 2-handed, but they did spend a pretty large number of boat-bucks making it so they could. And I emphasise, both the 62s I have seen had significant osmosis and plenty of other age-related issues...