S&S Yankee 30 MkIII vs Bristol 27

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by john61ct

This seems important, while on the speed issue, I never plan on doing any racing, but:

The 1.5x heavier boat not only starts out faster in theory (bare boat), but

that difference will only increase when loaded down with live-aboard / passage-making gear & supplies.

The lighter boat being much more susceptible to getting bogged down by the extra weight.

And surely that in itself is a significant safety issue in both heavy weather survivability and overall seakindliness, apart from the speed issue?

The Yankee 30 definitely sounds like a nice boat but you'll have to look at both. Then the biggest problem could be the diesel if it's old.

Folks are always saying how they will last for ever but that's not usually the case especially with ones that have sat unused for years.

I went thru that with my boat. I actually bought a second old diesel and gear box I used as backup. I went thru it all in about 2 months replacing the gear box first only to then have the old diesel fail. Then I pulled the engine and gearbox and switch the gearbox back to it's original engine and reinstalled that alone at a fixed dock.

I should have gone outboard day one. The outboard was new. Point is I know how my boat performs with an old 1974 10 hp, 352 lb diesel and it's about the same as with a new 2011 57 lb 25" shaft four stroke 5 hp outboard except the outboard doesn't leak or smell like the old diesel did, and I was able to totally clean out the bilge of sludge and the diesel mount area of oil and diesel leak

[alaskaflyfish]

Just my 2 cents. I have a Vega that has a triple axle trailer and I really like the ability to bring it home if I needed to or to travel across country without permits. I have not done either since I have had it. The Vega sits in the slip at the marina and the trailer sits in my yard unused and in the way of everything. So, if I had to choose between your two choices I would go for the Yankee 30. First reason is the quality of comfort in a larger boat. Second, the ability to maneuver in reverse and turn 360 degrees in tight places. If you utilize a marina, these two factors alone make a fin keel superior to a long keel. If I could sell mine today, tomorrow I would go out a buy something like a Cal 30-34. They seem like good boats.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Just my 2 cents. I have a Vega that has a triple axle trailer and I really like the ability to bring it home if I needed to or to travel across country without permits. I have not done either since I have had it. The Vega sits in the slip at the marina and the trailer sits in my yard unused and in the way of everything. So, if I had to choose between your two choices I would go for the Yankee 30. First reason is the quality of comfort in a larger boat. Second, the ability to maneuver in reverse and turn 360 degrees in tight places. If you utilize a marina, these two factors alone make a fin keel superior to a long keel. If I could sell mine today, tomorrow I would go out a buy something like a Cal 30-34. They seem like good boats.

All true except the maneuverability part. The Bristol has an outboard as does mine.

You have two tiller control with an outboard and can usually turn the outboard to assist in docking

I rotate my outboard every time during docking as my slip is tight near a jetty

[Don C L]

Btw it is not unusual that the weight between the Y30 and B27 should be so different. That’s about the usual to be expected from boats of those sizes and vintage; the Y30 is considerably larger in spite of being only 3 feet longer. It’s a math thing.

[Tillerjockey]

PHRF ratings more reflect the ability of a boat to go to windward on a race course. Reaching and downwind, boats of similar waterline length and SA/D ratios will sail about the same speed . If you've got a day long windward beat, the boat with the lower PHRF will probably get you to the harbor an hour or so earlier. IMHO the more important factor is the ability of the skipper to tune the rig and trim the sails to get the most out of his boat.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Seems to me a clear indication that you are comparing apples and oranges here.

So in other words the Yankee is an order of magnitude better?

In passage-making seaworthiness? Or just speed?

Please clarify wrt the OP criteria.

Set aside the trailerability for now, that's not an issue here, and well discussed already in the background more general thread. Or if you like at least post there to continue along that line.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Btw it is not unusual that the weight between the Y30 and B27 should be so different. That’s about the usual to be expected from boats of those sizes and vintage; the Y30 is considerably larger in spite of being only 3 feet longer. It’s a math thing.

And all in favor of the Y30 right? For my highest priority factors anyway

Only cons are:
light winds?
higher maintenance cost
need a more HD trailer and likely a marina to launch
and the 6" too beamy.

[Don C L]

I think the only con I know of is from Jim Cate who owned one and sailed to Hawaii and back. I think they were happy with the boat but they got tired of cruising at a steady 20 degree angle
Jim? Where are you???

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think the only con I know of is from Jim Cate who owned one and sailed to Hawaii and back. I think they were happy with the boat but they got tired of cruising at a steady 20 degree angle
Jim? Where are you???

The Cape Dory isn't going to be any stiffer and probably more prone to sailing at a 20 degrees plus heel angle. Think the Cates got tired of two people in the confines of a 30' boat.

The Yankee 30 should be a better boat in all respects except longitudinal stability. Will be more maneuverable in tight spaces, better to windward, and probably the same for all other points of sail. Interior volume will be much greater and better for cruising if some of that can be turned into storage. The Y30 was designed as a racer/cruiser so tankage may be less than the CD 28, The only negative and I don't know that it is would primarily be the boats ability to hold a heading. The livelier directional control of the Y30 would only be a problem if a self steering vane couldn't handle it. Haven't heard that is the case just thoughts on how my first fin keel boat handled which wasn't a Y30. Would stick with the Y30 if cost and other factors are close.

Seriously looked at a Y30 for 'Next Boat' when I began exploring downsizing. Unfortunately the slip dictated 29' or shorter so bought a Sabre 28. Was disapointed as I really liked the boat. BTW, there is a Mark I and II flavor of the boat, the Mark II had more ballast and a taller stick.

Outboards have some benfits mainly in cost and servicability off of boat but can be a total pain for manueverability in harbor. Unless you can simultaneously control the the throttle and tiller on the outboard while also handling the tiller on the boat things can get interesting in a hurry. Just had a boat ram the dock when they had to make a choice between steering the boat or slowing forward motion.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Have never seen other Yankees for sale, probably usually more expensive that I'd like.

So as far as robust seaworthy (BW) goes, better than Columbias (heresy I know), Dory's, Bristol 27?

Still think if I had $35+K the Nor'sea is my favorite.

But so many insist faster is important for safety. . .

In that size range there is not a huge difference in speed among your contenders. I would focus on live ability and build quality.

I would say the whole full keel thing is bull@&$% with respect to general cruising needs but in your case, as they tend to be narrower, you’re probably in that camp by default.

[Jim Cate]

Ok, I wasn't gooing to get into this discussion... I've posted about our experiences with our Y-33 mk III many times and don't have much to add. Happy to answer specific questions, though.

Will say that IMO there is a big difference in performance, especially with the Mk III version (like ours), compared to the CD 27. Despite what thomm thinks, assuming equal skippers and sails, the Y 30 will easily outperform the CD on ALL poiints of sail. And again despite the prejudices of the long keel crowd, we found the Y-30 to be very stable in terms of course holding. With the wind forward of the beam one could simply release the tiller and she would track all day, and making good speed all the while. And FWIW, we sailed most of the way from Kauai to SF using sheet to tiller steering, after our autohelm 2000 spit the dummy.

The design was very successful, both as a cruiser and a racer. We did both, with crew and solo. As a singlehander, racing in the OYRA ASH division (Assocation of Single Handers, I was able to win 4 straight season championships, often finishing ahead of allegedly "faster" boats like an Olsen 30... the secret being that she didn't need rail meat to sail up to her rating. And that's a good thing for a cruiser, too!

Very good boats for their time, and now as well.

A look at the numbers will show why it is gonna be faster than the CD, BTW. SA to D and LWL andD to L all greatly favour the Yankee, and the 18 inches greater draft will make a big difference going to windward.

Anyhow, I've decided to never tell folks what boat to buy and I won't now.

Oh... the main reason that we decided to change boats after the Hawaii trip was finding the big heel angle very fatiguing on passage. Stowage was adequate for a ~three week passage, tankage marginal. We had an A-4 engine and added an auxiliary gasoline tank. Don't remember what the total was, but at sea we only used the engine for ccharging batteries so it wasn't a big deal.

Jim

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by john61ct

So in other words the Yankee is an order of magnitude better?

In passage-making seaworthiness? Or just speed?

Please clarify wrt the OP criteria.

Set aside the trailerability for now, that's not an issue here, and well discussed already in the background more general thread. Or if you like at least post there to continue along that line.

Well, I'll set aside the trailerability aspect, if you will, after commenting that a Yankee 30 is not even in the running if you are serious about that criterion.

When I say that a Yankee 30 and a Bristol 27 are two different kinds of boats I mean just that. I don't mean one is better than the other, I mean they have different capabilities. The Yankee 30 is a racer/cruiser which was a capable racer in its day. The Bristol 27 is a small cruiser/passagemaker. If you are looking for a passagemaker, look at passagemakers.

Now, if you are looking at a boat you would keep in a local marina (not routinely move about on a trailer). A boat that you would use for short and long trips in protected and coasted waters, then I recommend the Y30 to you. It is a well built boat that is a joy to sail IMO. It would not be my choice for a bluewater passagemaker. Having said that, I recognize almost anything including canoes and rafts have been used to cross bluewater at one time or another.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think the only con I know of is from Jim Cate who owned one and sailed to Hawaii and back. I think they were happy with the boat but they got tired of cruising at a steady 20 degree angle
Jim? Where are you???

The Bristol 27 sails with at least that much heel also unless you are going downwind, then as the wind increases you have constant rolling, constant rolling, constant rolling

It really freaked me out at first after having only sailed Beach Cats which fly along level in the downwind…...but in much smoother water

You can see some of the rolling starting to come in at the end of this old video from 4 years ago as the wind continued to increase.

The plan was to catch this passing front for the 50 mile run down to Kiptopeke and it worked except instead of 15-20 knot winds that were forecast they topped out near 28 knots and I had to take control because the autopilot couldn't keep up. I was being pushed back into the shallows to port with the NNW-NW Wind

There was also no place to go but downwind. All the creeks were too shallow and the motion was about to cause me to blow chunks which I couldn't do and still drive. I wasn't used to the boat yet in conditions like this. Instant chewable Dramamine saved me most probably but not until 4 hours in when I remembered I had it

The good news was that it was a quick trip as the boat stayed between 6 and 7 knots most of the way down and I was having a beer by the time I got to Cape Charles which is just a few miles short of Kiptopeke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd3E5-KyiZ8

[gmakhs]

A proper passage maker should be 34 to 38 feet for one or two persons I say this from my own personal.experience .
I do circunavigate 2 years now with my beneteau first 26 , this is a cruiser racer made in 1986 the boat has a great design and feels safe at sea , it's fast and most of the times manohver only under sail , it's big enough to live on but small enough to go just everywhere(marina and bays ) but it has a few disadvantages for me .
1) can't carry a lot of fresh water , I do carry 150 litters of water but I would be really happy with 400 or 500 litters bigger boats allow .
2)not enough space for different sails (if you plan to circunavigate you need at least 1 jib extra for spare one main extra for.spare and storm mainsail and storm sail (storm sails are really necessary o. A small boat and they are.making everything more comfortable )
3) sailing downwind in a stormy weather 35 knots plus you will be making 5 to 7 knots this means the breaking waves coming around 15knots will flow in your cockpit and have a greater impact on the smaller boat than a bigger boat that will do 9 to 12 knots
4) steel is superior to fiberglass , and once you are off marinas in uncharted bays or coral infested water , or when that fisherman comes along side to sell you fish and by accident hitting your sensitive fiber boat you will understand what I mean .
5)Trailer ability , you don't really need it but what you really need is the ability to beach the boat with the tide .
6) you need a long keel and rudder , my keel is 1.70 and my rudder 1.60 the boat manouvers so smooth I will never replace it for shallower draft .
7) my boat had so many reinforces and changes from the original design (even the toe rail have been changed ) that people won't recognise the model -brand , those changed mean money and time that you better spent on a bigger boat .

Finally I don't regret sailing my small boat is fun and I never felt in danger not even when my tiller broke in storm or when I hit my rib , and could barely move , all that on winds over 35 knots , the boat took care of me and was able to heave to really well.

And finally doesn't matter what you decide to go with always prepare for everything to breakers and make backup plans , because it will brake .

[john61ct]

Thanks Don!

Originally Posted by roverhi

The Yankee 30 should be a better boat in all respects except longitudinal stability.
..
The livelier directional control of the Y30 would only be a problem if a self steering vane couldn't handle it.

Thanks so much, great details.

Lots of comments auto steers work great with the Y30, already planned on that as a someday upfit.

> used a Navik wind vane and it handled the boat very well, even when sailing downwind in heavy seas--with only 28" of freeboard aft, it handled much like a submarine--not a lot of windage and tons of boyancy for the size