Running lines back to cockpit

[sv_pelagia]

It has been said but may have been missed:

Way more friction with lines to cockpit, so raising main can be difficult. Even more so with winch vertical on cabin top vs horizontal at mast (much easier to turn winch horizontally on mastl.

We have 2 main halyards: one to cockpit and the other to mast.We always use mast winch.

As others say, usually have to go to mast to bring down mainsail (and we have Dutchman).

[WoodenKetch]

The problem with leading everything aft is adding a huge amount of friction so you end up doing absolutely everything with the winches which is slow and does not provide much feedback. At the mast you can likely raise sails most of the way by hand, which is much faster and more enjoyable and you know when something isn't moving freely. Highly loaded components are more likely to fail.

Reefing at the mast also provides a better view of the sail, so you are less likely to damage the sail if a reef line is leading poorly or cloth is being pulled into a sheave.

Furling the jib from the cockpit makes sense.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Moana Bella

I'm considering buying a Beneteau Oceanis 50, 1996.
But most of the lines are handled at the mast, which I consider less than ideal for 2 of us to sail long distances.
Would there be any reason why we couldn't modify this to run the main halyard, reefing lines etc, back to the cockpit?
The Beneteau 50 manuals I could find online all have everything going back to the cockpit except the genoa halyard. (on a furler anyway) But they seem to start from 2001, and I can't find anything earlier.
Does anyone have an owners manual for Bene 50 in 1996?
Or can anyone think why you would not be able to run back the main halyard, and install single line reefing and run the reef lines back as well?

Hmm. It's going to take quite a lot of work and expense in doing this.

A set of blocks at the base of the mast
A stack of turning blocks mounted to a strong-point either side of the coachroof
A stack of jammers mounted to a strong-point either side under the dodger
A pair of secondary winches mounted to a strong-point either side under the dodger.
Then there are all of the lines that would need to be replaced

Forgetting the labour, if you had to buy all of that equipment new, it could be the same as finding a more recent boat with what you want on it.

As to whether the concept is good or not, we have a 2012 Oceanis 50 with everything aft, and I must say I would not have it any other way.

[jmschmidt]

Running all or most lines to the cockpit is definitely for cruisers.
For racing you need a division of labor so you don't have bodies getting in way of other bodies.
40' to 50' LOA, foredeck (2 crew), mast (2), floater between foredeck and mast (1) and cockpit (2-3) plus a helmsman, excuse me "helmsperson." A foredeck/mast floater is useful when jibbing and taking down the chute.
I've raced on a couple of 40'+ boats with all lines led to the cockpit. Five or six people in the cockpit are a real mess and one or more have to go forward from time to time anyway.

[Don C L]

I have a smaller boat with hanked-on headsails, and I sail in and out of my slip, so being able raise, lower and adjust halyards at the cockpit makes a big difference to me. But on a larger boat I'd leave all the action at the mast. And I doubt I'd go with single line reefing. I have tried that on my boat and it worked ok. On a larger boat with so much more sail, and friction and/or snag chances, I'd have to really see it in action to be convinced.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I have a smaller boat with hanked-on headsails, and I sail in and out of my slip, so being able raise, lower and adjust halyards at the cockpit makes a big difference to me. But on a larger boat I'd leave all the action at the mast. And I doubt I'd go with single line reefing. I have tried that on my boat and it worked ok. On a larger boat with so much more sail, and friction and/or snag chances, I'd have to really see it in action to be convinced.

Definitely anything over 30 feet I find myself just raising the mainsail at the mast; you have so much more leverage, and as someone pointed out, you gotta get it up fast to not snag the jacks. So even when the halyard is led to a clutch in the cockpit, I just have whoever else is on board pull through the slack as I'm hauling. If I had my own boat, I'd want the main halyard on the mast.

Not mentioned in this thread is something that has happened to me twice: An inexperienced person on board accidentally dropping the main at an inopportune moment by inadvertently releasing the wrong clutch. Of course that would never happen to any of you old salts.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Of course that would never happen to any of you old salts.

Never!

[MicHughV]

I must run contrary to this opinion.

I have much experience with the Beneteau 423, where every mast line is run back to the cockpit. There are rope clutches either side of the companionway plus two winches to handle an assortment of lines, plus a myriad of lines, that hang everywhere, and I mean everywhere, including inside the boat....looks like somebody dumped a bowl of spaghetti sometimes.

On top of which, there is always the jib sheets that also clutter the cockpit and to adjust the main requires either a second person, or leaving the wheel or trusting the autopilot. The mainsheet often requires many adjustments, many times, this soon becomes a major pain in the rear end.

All these lines must be led back to the cockpit by yet another array of turning blocks, sheaves, etc, etc, etc. It literally requires a winch to provide motive power to pull a line, whereas, mounted on the mast (or boom), these can be handled by hand.

I w-a-a-a-a-y much prefer to handle all the halyards, reefing lines, outhauls, etc from the mast. In my humble opinion, it is simpler and easier and far more expedient to handle everything from the mast, and you always have the option of fitting some so-called "granny bars" at the mast for security.

If you do have a screw up for any reason, it will require one person in the cockpit and another person on deck to sort it all out, whereas, all lines led to mast winches and cleats, makes this a relatively simple procedure and you are standing right there to address any problem..

I can think of countless times, when just hoisting, lowering or reefing the main from the cockpit was a pain in the butt..

My two prior boats had all mast mounted winches and cleats, and there is simply no comparison in ease of use.

I have never had a problem moving out of the cockpit to do anything...ever...not once...I'm talking an almost 40 year life spent aboard.

Having all lines run back to the cockpit is touted as a safety feature, which I find hilarious. It's sales talk ! Take it from me, it's a pain in the butt.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I must run contrary to this opinion.

I have much experience with the Beneteau 423, where every mast line is run back to the cockpit. There are rope clutches either side of the companionway plus two winches to handle an assortment of lines, plus a myriad of lines, that hang everywhere, and I mean everywhere, including inside the boat....looks like somebody dumped a bowl of spaghetti sometimes.

On top of which, there is always the jib sheets that also clutter the cockpit and to adjust the main requires either a second person, or leaving the wheel or trusting the autopilot. The mainsheet often requires many adjustments, many times, this soon becomes a major pain in the rear end.

All these lines must be led back to the cockpit by yet another array of turning blocks, sheaves, etc, etc, etc. It literally requires a winch to provide motive power to pull a line, whereas, mounted on the mast (or boom), these can be handled by hand.

I w-a-a-a-a-y much prefer to handle all the halyards, reefing lines, outhauls, etc from the mast. In my humble opinion, it is simpler and easier and far more expedient to handle everything from the mast, and you always have the option of fitting some so-called "granny bars" at the mast for security.

If you do have a screw up for any reason, it will require one person in the cockpit and another person on deck to sort it all out, whereas, all lines led to mast winches and cleats, makes this a relatively simple procedure and you are standing right there to address any problem..

I can think of countless times, when just hoisting, lowering or reefing the main from the cockpit was a pain in the butt..

My two prior boats had all mast mounted winches and cleats, and there is simply no comparison in ease of use.

I have never had a problem moving out of the cockpit to do anything...ever...not once...I'm talking an almost 40 year life spent aboard.

Having all lines run back to the cockpit is touted as a safety feature, which I find hilarious. It's sales talk ! Take it from me, it's a pain in the butt.

Sounds like most people here agree with you, Mic.

I sometimes sail on a Beneteau 36.7. It's a racing boat, 7'3" draft. Helmsman has easy access to all the control lines. The main sheet runs through the clew, right to the helmsman's position, and the massive traveler is arranged across the cockpit sole at the helmsman's feet. The genoa sheets are also within easy reach, thanks to the massive wheel. It's fantastic convenience and control!

Until sh!t gets wild, someone trips on the traveler, and nearly gets decapitated by the main sheet. Then you wish all that stuff were up where it belongs.

[EDIT: Looks like skipper forgot to secure the aft lifelines, WAFI tosser.]

[AKA-None]

Sail it like it sits then decide which Lines you want where

[Clivevon]

With 12 clutches it was useful to make up my own labels. I used something like this:
Product EU30207LP - 70mm x 12mm Labels - Weatherproof White Laser - 34 Per A4 Sheet

Lasted several seasons so far. Cheap, too.

[MicHughV]

I think boat designers are mostly all thinking "modern" these days, Beneteau especially.
You get twin steering positions these days, plus a whole host of other " modern" features like all lines being led back to the cockpit, lazy jacks on the boom, in-mast furling, etc, etc, ad infinitum. A lot of it is " bling"...much like cars these days, hard to buy a car today without a big screen, and 10,000,000 things you can do with it.
The Beneteau's feature the flat bottomed hull ala the Vendee Globe boats, fast, yes, but there is no bilge.

If there is any one feature of modern boats I do like, it's the " open" transom seen on Beneteau and a few other models. Never thought I'd see the day, when an "open" transom would appeal to me, but it does, and I've come to love it.

The Bennie is a great sailing boat, no doubt about that, but like any boat its has some annoying features. #1 for me is all the lines led back to the cockpit. #2. Low lifelines
#3. No bilge. Any water inside the boat runs to the low side of the boat

But, as a prospective buyer, there are 1,000's of sailboat models to choose from. Somewhere in this mix, is the " right" boat for YOU, which is all that counts.

[MicHughV]

If you are concerned about safety.....this is what I do, when I'm in open ocean..

I run a flat nylon webbing line down each side of the boat. My webbing line is about 1.5" wide, it is rated for several 1,000 lbs. The forward end of the line has been fashioned into a loop. This I slip over a cleat each side of the boat, the loop goes thru' the eye of the cleat and then over the horns so it can't slip off, next to the anchor, then lead the webbing line back to the aft cleats where it is tied down. I try to make the webbing line as tight as I can manage.

The webbing is flat so it lays easily on the deck next to the cabin structure, out of the way. When going forward, I simply clip the end of my safety harness to this webbing line, while I'm still in the cockpit. This way, I'm always attached to the boat, but free to move around.

[Heath68]

We were looking to buy a 50ft catamaran and all lines were at the mast and I worried that this would make single handed sailing impossible when it came to reefing.. so I worried about how to change it to lines back to the cockpit... I think if we go through with the purchase then I'll suck it and see first before changing it. I am intrigued by people talking about granny bars though, are these the same as having a pulpit rail?

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Heath68

We were looking to buy a 50ft catamaran and all lines were at the mast and I worried that this would make single handed sailing impossible when it came to reefing.. so I worried about how to change it to lines back to the cockpit... I think if we go through with the purchase then I'll suck it and see first before changing it. I am intrigued by people talking about granny bars though, are these the same as having a pulpit rail?

A pulpit rail is at the bow; granny rails are on either side of the mast and provide a secure place to brace oneself when working on lines with both hands. I've sailed a lot on a cruising cat, and put in reefs at 40kts, and never once wished for granny rails--cats simply aren't trying to buck you off like that. As long as you can easily get forward and there's a place to stand at the mast (I sailed a Lagoon 50-ish once where the step was at a sloping portion of the cabin), I think rails would just get in the way.