RUMORS about Formosa, CT, & 70s-80s Taiwan boats

[Vino the Dog]

Each of these comments were taken from various Cruisers Forum posts and I am tying to find out if there’s any truth behind these rumors.

These boats were all built with very low quality.

Formosa used old newspapers as a core material.

CT used cheap Indonesian plywood as core material.

CT was still using nails to fasten their decks into the 1990s

I even found the Sunday comics under the teak decking.

I would like to hear from all of you who have torn apart, repaired, or replaced your own decks and coach roofs, or personally watched the construction of boats in Taiwan during the 70s & 80s. Did you find any of these conditions in your boat or did you personally see anyone using these substandard materials in an actual construction? If you have photos to confirm your statement, please post along with boat type and year built.

[libspero]

I’ve an interest in one of the Formosas so have been following user groups and researching quite heavily.

I have not heard any reports from owners of newspaper (or anything else) being used as substitute core material.

I believe most had thick solid hulls and hardwood cored decks. These may rot due to leaks caused by the teak decks.

I did speak to a chartered marine surveyor who spoke quite scathingly of them.. but didn’t provide any specifics.

I too would be interested in comments from current/previous Formosa owners.

[callistov42]

I have a 80's Vagabond (not a Formosa or a CT) but I have owned my boat for 25 years and done EXTENSIVE REPAIRS to it over the years and have never found anything like what you are describing. We did major hull repairs after Hurricane Irma and the hull was well layed up, thick and very sound (although when the boat got knocked off it's stands and fell on a huge concrete block it did make a hole in the hull). These boats may have crappy black iron fuel tanks and some had substandard stainless and encapsulated chain plates that corrode but all the structural work and fiberglass work I have seen has been pretty good quality in my estimation.

[zeehag]

my only nails are from salvor, whose signature was finishing nails.
replacement of bulkheads showed delaminated plywood. after 40 yrs, some ply would delam. hahahahaha
my hull is strong and solid. had divots from sitting on a breakwall for a week. is laid from layers of roving and mat.
mine is one built without teak decking. my decks are 3/4 inch thick with a core looks like door skin sandwiched in.
my delaminated boards look like piles of paper.
my original 49 gallon water tanks are stainless steel. my old fuel tank is gone and was when i took over this boat. i replaced the mess with a stainless steel custom tank.
my original 40 yr old chainplates were cracked and some twistoflex cracked.. 316 was replaced by me with 304, made burlier than the originals.
there was no black steel in my boat when i acquired it.
i have no other things to say about the horrible construction. hell what can i bitch about. boat is 43 years old. it seems to me the allegedly poorly constructed boats have probably attritioned out by now, leaving the stronger examples to survive the years.
mine is 1976 yankee clipper, formosa boat builders yard, taipei, taiwan.

[carlheintz]

We owned a CT-41. It was well built, but there was a lot of wood around, and wood rots. The problem with those beautiful teak decks is just that they screwed them into the fiberglass and water will find a way into the core. The core material on my boat was plywood, I can't tell you whether it was marine grade or not. Once the rot starts, who knows. The masts were boxes made of spruce. Best to not paint them, because you'll never know when they are rotting. Varnish only. The biggest problem was rot from the inside of the masts, since they were hollow. That meant you had to be on top of maintenance. A yearly ( or more often ) trip up the masts was a necessity, testing each and every attachment to see if any tell-tale sign of rot was present.

OK, so a 40 year old boat is going to require a certain degree of obsessive compulsive maintenance. You're going to be replacing what looks like perfectly good stainless steel because under a loupe or microscope you can see the stress fractures forming. You're going to be poking around everywhere looking for rot. You're going to be re-bedding everything. You will use tons of sandpaper and gallons of varnish every year. But they are SO beautiful.

[Capt. Ray]

I lived aboard an Island Trader 51 (William Garden Formosa) Ketcch for 10 years and sailed her 26,000nm. I did a full masts out refit and 12 coats of varnish, replaced the old black iron fuel tanks (an inevitable job after 30 years) and a full teak deck re-caulk plus all the usual maintenance every year. I ddid not see any of the stuff you mention below. The decks had no more problems than any other boat with similar construction. The decks were definitely high quality ply and about 2.5" thick I think three layers of ply. The masts are usually sitka spruce and need the same maintenance of any wood masts. Some people replaced with modern aluminium spars.

These vessels were very good value for money and a lot of them so prices are quite low reflecting the fact that you get a LOT of boat for your money but maintenance is nothing to do with the value, it's the size. Many people buy a cheap old boat and think they can maintain with comparatively low funds which of course is ludicrous. So many have fallen into a state of "deferred maintenance" to put it mildly.

Buy a good one, have appropriate maintenance funds, and you'll be rewarded with a brilliant sea-kindly offshore vessel.

Originally Posted by libspero

I’ve an interest in one of the Formosas so have been following user groups and researching quite heavily.

I have not heard any reports from owners of newspaper (or anything else) being used as substitute core material.

I believe most had thick solid hulls and hardwood cored decks. These may rot due to leaks caused by the teak decks.

I did speak to a chartered marine surveyor who spoke quite scathingly of them.. but didn’t provide any specifics.

I too would be interested in comments from current/previous Formosa owners.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Vino the Dog

Each of these comments were taken from various Cruisers Forum posts and I am tying to find out if there’s any truth behind these rumors.

These boats were all built with very low quality. Well, it depends. Very early ones were poor in some areas for sure. Later were good, but lacked aesthetic finishing, like glass work inside cabinets might be rough with sharp stuff protruding etc. OTOH, hulls were very thick and strong. Early boats may have plywood decks, cabins and cockpits covered with fiberglass. I guess they didnt have molds until later. These boats can be a nightmare. Some yards were much better than others. My experience says that Formosa and early Cheoy Lee's were lower quality than Ta Chaio. Ta Shing however is seldom equaled by any yard in the world.

Formosa used old newspapers as a core material. Have not seen that.

CT used cheap Indonesian plywood as core material. Yes, it was often rot prone for sure.

CT was still using nails to fasten their decks into the 1990s I have not seen that even in the eighties, but maybe.

I even found the Sunday comics under the teak decking.

I would like to hear from all of you who have torn apart, repaired, or replaced your own decks and coach roofs, or personally watched the construction of boats in Taiwan during the 70s & 80s. Did you find any of these conditions in your boat or did you personally see anyone using these substandard materials in an actual construction? If you have photos to confirm your statement, please post along with boat type and year built.

see bold

[Mike6040]

I owned a 1982 CT-47 for 15 years, third owner and these comments are absolutely FALSE. There are some issues with Tiwanese stainless so after a few decades, replace standing rigging and chain plates. Great Offshore boat, did great in a gale on way to Bermuda. Exquisite interior, never any blisters (Japanese resin) solid !!!!!

[sailon46]

Back in the mid 80's I owned a Formosa 35' when the rudder gave out on it (no collision or anything) the ship right in San Pedro CA uncovered the that the rudder stem was welded to the rudder post with a steel fragment of a bolt in between. How's that for quality work by the Taiwanese Ship Yard that built the boat FYI.
Ernie on the Mary Jane

[Capt. Ray]

I had a Nautical Development 56 built in Florida, a very well-regarded stout offshore ketch. After 2,000nm I lost rudder control sailing from Miami to the Bahamas. On getting hauled out and grinding out the rudder down to the post I found that the rudder straps were spot-welded in place but they had forgotten to complete the welds before pouring the resin into the shell. That kind of thing happens on boats whether they are built in Taiwan or America.

Originally Posted by sailon46

Back in the mid 80's I owned a Formosa 35' when the rudder gave out on it (no collision or anything) the ship right in San Pedro CA uncovered the that the rudder stem was welded to the rudder post with a steel fragment of a bolt in between. How's that for quality work by the Taiwanese Ship Yard that built the boat FYI.
Ernie on the Mary Jane

[Dougtiff]

Back in the 80'S, i was diving out of Kowshung, as we had a drilling rig just south of the island, on my time off, sometimes i would haunt the various yards, i saw every thing from the best to the worst, depending on the yard, a friend in singapore bought a 35 footer, and i delivered her, first stop Hong kong, as back then you couldn,t do sea trials, off Taiwan, as they were so paranoid, concerning China, so the H.K. run was the trial. after a few month,s in Singapore, the cockpit started to fall apart, along with the cabin sides, they hadn,t got around yet to making molds for glass, so it was all really bad plywood, with a good spray paint job, looking like glass, Peter the owner, had to hire a local shipwright to rebuild every thing, which was done with Teak, it was quite an education for me, watching this being done.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

After a few months in Singapore, the cockpit started to fall apart, along with the cabin sides, they hadn't got around yet to making molds for glass, so it was all really bad plywood, with a good spray paint job, looking like glass. Peter the owner, had to hire a local shipwright to rebuild everything, which was done with teak.

Well, after 40-50 years, problems like this have presumably disappeared - one way or the other.

[mayberrybfd]

I was hoping you would field these questions. They were made for you. Our fearless leader

[Vino the Dog]

Originally Posted by Mike6040

... (Japanese resin) ...

Probably not. Taiwan was heavily invested in the plastics industry starting in the late 50s, just about the same time they began building fiberglass boats. I believe they produced glass cloth and resins as well as developed new formulas. I also suspect that was the reason Bill Hardin, a fiberglass expert during those years, moved his operation from Japan to Taiwan in 1960.

[Vino the Dog]

Originally Posted by sailon46

Back in the mid 80's I owned a Formosa 35' when the rudder gave out on it (no collision or anything) the ship right in San Pedro CA uncovered the that the rudder stem was welded to the rudder post with a steel fragment of a bolt in between. How's that for quality work by the Taiwanese Ship Yard that built the boat FYI.
Ernie on the Mary Jane

Were you the original owner?